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2 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

I never said BATM was better than Kill 'Em All. KEM is a great album and, yes, in a different galaxy compared to BATM in terms of innovation. It is still finding its way though, with some throwback classic heavy metal tropes. They didn't know they were inventing thrash metal at the time.

I listened to the first track of the first album you posted. The Swedish one. It sounded like Van Halen to me, at least vocally which is what gave it its identity. I'm not sure why this would be "heavier" than Bark at the Moon (the song) which is fast and has a blistering solo. You just reeeally don't like that song. I think you need therapy to unravel the bad touch which took place while BATM was playing.

It occurred to me yesterday that 'Murrica didn't really have much to offer in the heavy music sphere until thrash hit. Twisted Sister is the only classic metal band I can think of which I love, but know you hate (and they found their first success in the UK). Aforementioned Van Halen never did it for me, although I can accept the guitar playing innovation.

I need to check the shelf*. I think the only American album I have from the 70s is Alice Cooper Billion Dollar Babies, which is decent, but not pushing any musical boundaries.

But you gave us slaves and the blues, so cheers for that.

*EDIT:

Jimi Hendrix. Goddammit. Technically American, but with an English band and management.

The Stooges, Fun House. 1970. I got this for my birthday one year because I was told I needed schooling in proto-metal. It is very enjoyable, if a bit too alternative in places.

KISS: Dynasty (ha) and The Elder (HA!). A very much American band. The very epitome of image over substance.

Can't count Rainbow Rising. 

Quiet Riot Metal Health (1983). Good grief this has not aged well. BATM is not remotely as dated as that. 

"Kill 'Em All is only just out and shows promise, but BATM is still state of the art (for better or worse) in 1983."

I took that statement to mean you thought being "state of the art" would put it somewhere above "shows promise." I wouldn't personally consider BatM to be in any way "state of the art" for '83 (for 8 year olds maybe) but it's entirely possible that you and I might be operating on different scales. I tend to rank most things from that time period on the heaviness scale, because that's what matters to me most. And certainly by '83 there were much heavier bands around than Ozzy's.

I don't know if I would say the Burn album (their only full length) is truly "heavier" than any other particular album from 1983, so they weren't state of the art either. But coming out of left field on indie Swedish label Moonshine Records (first Swedish metal band I ever heard) their record was a bit more rough and raw sounding than major label releases like BatM, much less polished and commercial, and most importantly every single song on it is really good, no skippers. Tbh I can't really hear these Van Halen comparisons I saw in the Youtube comments.

BatM on the other hand only had like maybe 3 or 4 half-decent tunes (if I'm being extremely generous) with overly poppy saccharine-sweet choruses, so that puts the obscure Burn album light years ahead of that Ozzy album in my estimation. Songwriting-wise it's just not a good album. I mean even the Sabbath album everyone loves to shit on from the Ozzy years, the underrated Never Say Die, while unquestionably the weakest album of Sabbath's Ozzy years, it's still approximately 3 or 4 million times better than BatM. Even the cringey Metal Health album you mentioned, while it can't in any way be described as "good," from memory I'd guess it still probably holds up at least as well if not better than BatM. But I'm not willing at this time to go back and have a listen just to compare one shitty 40 year old album to another. So I'm not gonna make Quiet Riot my hill to die on.

I will never understand after Randy died why people kept buying Ozzy albums regardless of the steadily declining song quality, and it mysifies me how he got as big as he eventually did, much bigger than Sabbath ever got from a commercial sales standpoint. But then I guess there have been an awful lot of crappy commercial bands out there over the years that I can't understand how or why they could have possibly become as big as they did.

I also think it's important to add that for me personally "blistering solos" and guitar histrionics don't make a song "heavy" and they can't do anything at all to save crappy commercial pop-rock music like the stuff Ozzy and Van Halen and Twisted Sister were putting out in the early 80's. Although I don't care for Van Halen at all after their first 3 albums (they got much too poppy for me in the 80's) I'd still rank their 80's stuff ahead of Ozzy's strictly on the basis of Mr Daisley's generally subpar songwriting. Imo it's the song and the riffs that matter, and guitar solos need to be in service of the song. If the 3 or 4 minute song isn't any good, then who really gives a shit how "blistering" the 20 second solo they've inserted might be? But I'm sure other people probably think differently.

Obviously 1983 was a transitional time in the history of heavy metal. It was a really cool and exciting time to be a metalhead with so many new bands and sounds coming at us one after another  from every direction. Thrash was just coming into existence and gaining popularity in the metal clubs and thrash bands were starting to get recording deals. NWOBHM (I'll include Priest and Motorhead in this category for the sake of this discussion if you don't mind) and speed metal were king of the hill at this stage, if not with critics or 8 year olds, then at least with the rank and file punters within heavy metal circles. But 70's rock bands like Van Halen, AC/DC, Thin Lizzy, Aerosmith, Sabbath, Zeppelin and Rainbow remained quite popular and relevant in the early part of the 80's too. There was just a lot going on back then.

I'll agree that the overwhelming majority of the best heavy rock music and then later heavy metal came out of the UK all throughout the 60's and 70's right up until about '83 or '84 when the Americans got into the game with thrash metal (and later death metal) and I'm sorry to have to say that the UK hasn't dominated the heavy metal scene at any time since then. But for sure you Brits owned the 60's & 70's, you'll get no argument from me there. I never got into Alice Cooper in the 70's, they just weren't heavy enough for me. Not sure if I've ever heard any of his albums in their entirety. I'm sure I must have checked one or two of his albums out on Youtube at some point in my life, but I've forgotten what they sounded like other than not being particularly heavy.

You're quite welcome for the blues Jon, as well as rock & roll, but do you really think we Yanks gave you slaves?? Not sure what that has to do with Ozzy, but are you aware there was slavery in the British Isles (and pretty much everywhere else around the world) long before the American Colonies even existed? Are you aware of how many slaves British empire ships transported from western Africa to what is now America in the 17th - 19th centuries? Are you aware that Britain was shipping their own subjects (albeit convicted criminals) overseas to be used and sold as slaves during that period as well? Are you aware that slavery was not fully abolished in Britain until 1833? Maybe you should do some research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain

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26 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

You're quite welcome for the blues Jon, as well as rock & roll, but do you really think we Yanks gave you slaves?? Not sure what that has to do with Ozzy, but are you aware there was slavery in the British Isles (and pretty much everywhere else around the world) long before the American Colonies even existed? Are you aware of how many slaves British empire ships transported from western Africa to what is now America in the 17th - 19th centuries? Are you aware that Britain was shipping their own subjects (albeit convicted criminals) overseas to be used and sold as slaves during that period as well? Are you aware that slavery was not fully abolished in Britain until 1833? Maybe you should do some research.

That is not lost on me. But the best slaves were the cotton pickin' ones that sang the blues, because that ultimately gave us metal. No matter what Varg might say.

1 hour ago, navybsn said:

While maybe never a big deal commercially, the best lesser known US metal act in the early 80's was Manilla Road. Crystal Logic is a stone cold classic.

The name crops up a lot so I really should check this out. Despite having no nostalgic connection I really enjoyed Deep Purple In Rock I picked up a month or two ago. I couldn't get hold of those Blue Oyster Cult ones you recommended yet though.

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1 hour ago, navybsn said:

While maybe never a big deal commercially, the best lesser known US metal act in the early 80's was Manilla Road. Crystal Logic is a stone cold classic.

Sorry to say I've never heard a Manilla Road album. I saw them live at MDF one year about a decade ago, but not being at all familiar with their music I wasn't feeling it so I ended up walking away after a few songs to go eat or something. Listening to Crystal Logic right now. This is really good except for the vocals. I've no doubt heard worse vocals than this, but I think they're still bad enough to put me off the band. I'll let the rest of the album finish to see if I can get used to them.

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3 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Y'know I probably do prefer Heaven & Hell and Mob Rules to Blizzard and Diary, but that's because Iommi is the man and Ozzy is a fool. In a stark assessment, the two Ozzy records are perhaps more cohesive. Heaven & Hell, while hailed as this magnificent return to form, has definite filler on it. It's just that the highs are so fucking high.

They do both have some filler, H&H in particular was one of those side 1 albums that almost never got flipped over. But if you were to take the best tracks off H&H and Mob Rules you could construct one pretty awesome album that'd clock in at around 55 minutes.

 

Neon Knights (probably my favorite track off either album)

Children of the Sea

Lady Evil

Die Young

Heaven and Hell

Lonely is the Word

Turn Up the Night

Voodoo

Country Girl

Mob Rules (talk about blistering solos, but skip the 3 minute intro)

Falling Off the Edge of the World

Sign of the Southern Cross

 

Black Sabbath - Neon Knights (Official Music Video)

 

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1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Sorry to say I've never heard a Manilla Road album. I saw them live at MDF one year about a decade ago, but not being at all familiar with their music I wasn't feeling it so I ended up walking away after a few songs to go eat or something. Listening to Crystal Logic right now. This is really good except for the vocals. I've no doubt heard worse vocals than this, but I think they're still bad enough to put me off the band. I'll let the rest of the album finish to see if I can get used to them.

Yeah Shelton's vocals are an acquired taste. The discography kind of falls off after 87-88, but it's still decent stuff. If I were to recommend a particular album to you, it would be Mystification or Open the Gates. They're a touch harder and have better production on the vocals. He's still very nasally, but more tolerable.

Manilla Road - Mystification

Open the Gates

NP: Inquisition - Bloodshed

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6 hours ago, navybsn said:

Manilla Road - Metal

I picked this one at random to dip into, never having listened to Manilla Road either. The vocals are not offensive, but are heavily produced to hide his limitations. Well played, good sounding, good leads. The drummer is doing nothing. Metal? Much more progressive rock to my ears. 

Will I go further into MR? Nah. There is no nostalgia value in this for me and there is so much out there that interests me more.

1 hour ago, AlSymerz said:

Buffalo - Only Want You For Your Body

That's what all the buffalos say.

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3 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Not avant-ambient-dissonant enough for you?

It was not. It was generic R&R that went on and on with ditty little riffettes with would be Robert Plant-ish vocals. I'm listening to some more now as I write to be fair and I think I have been fair. It's horrible.

Nighty-night.

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5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

It was not. It was generic R&R that went on and on with ditty little riffettes with would be Robert Plant-ish vocals. I'm listening to some more now as I write to be fair and I think I have been fair. It's horrible.

Nighty-night.

Not the kind of thing I'd have expected you to fall in love with Doc, but I have to say I'd never have imagined I'd ever hear anyone describe Joe Walsh's distinctive nasally vocals as "would be Robert Plant-ish." Personally I like the dirty little riffettes and while the album's definitely not a "stone cold classic" (song quality varies drastically from track to track, there are several skippers) I do consider a good portion of the album to be better than average for 1970. Even though we all know 50+ year old rock albums are not the kind of thing I reach for on the regular. My exchange with Jon earlier had left me wondering what other good American rock & roll I could think of from the 1970's. Even though that James Gang album sounds more like the late 60's than it does 70's.

 

Lynyrd Skynyrd - Nuthin' Fancy, Jacksonville Florida 1975, more old shit from our teenage years Doc won't like. We didn't have heavy metal yet in the 1970's (unless you wanna count Sabbath) so I had to make do with whatever guitar music I could find. Love this album. Play it a few times each spring when the weather starts to warm up. But since we hit 62° today in the middle of February (55° atm at 4:15am, which is unheard of) I say close enough, bring on the southern rock.

 

ZZ Top - Tejas, Houston Texas 1976, this one's a stone cold classic.

 

Hot Tuna - Yellow Fever, San Francisco California 1975

 

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