What Are You Listening To?

[GoatmasterGeneral]

17 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Ad Nauseam - Imperative Imperceptible Impulse

Got into a little disagreement with one of my metalhead friends on our text thread a week ago. One dude posted that he was stuck for something to listen to next and asked for suggestions. So this other dude says you should play the new Ad Nauseam - III album, said he was quite taken with it. So not being familiar I checked it out as well and then posted that I didn't get it, how is this even music? To me it sounded so atonal to the degree that I thought maybe the album could've been made by monkeys or some dudes that didn't know how to play their instruments. Which is of course hyperbole but we went back and forth a little bit and he was clearly butt hurt at my assesment as if I had been attacking or impugning him personally and calling his musical tastes or even his manhood into question. So I haven't been back to participate with the gang in 10 days, I've just been ignoring my phone's incessant text notifications which in my case sound like a beer bottle being opened and the bottle cap hitting the floor. I can't post with people with insecurity issues who take it personally and play the victim when I declare some band or album blows. I call 'em like I see 'em so that is going to happen but I mean it's just my dumbass opinion, and who the fuck am I? I'm just tawkin' ovuh heeyah.

 

But my real question is, what's the deal with this album? Sounds like they made a mistake when mixing or mastering and inadvertently have two different tracks coming out of the left and right channels. I don't really know how to approach or listen to unsettling music like this that has no form and no beat and instead  just has a bunch of noises that don't fit in with the rest. Seems more like an intellectual exercize than what I think of as "music" and I guess I'm not smart enough to get it. Whatever "it" is. What is this in 19/13 time or something? I bet Doc probably loves this shit haha.

[ratpfink]

1 hour ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Dune is one of my favorite novels of all time. I read it when I was pretty young and it had an outsized impact. All six of the original Dune books are great IMO, what do you think of the rest of them?

Yeah this was probably 20 years ago when I first read Dune. IMO, it's probably the best sci-fi novel ever written. I think I only made it through Dune Messiah and maybe Children of Dune. All I remember is that they weren't as good! Sounds like you think I should continue down all the Frank Hebert sequels though?

 

NP: Atlantean Kodex - The Course Of Empire

[Athame]

Xasthur - The Funeral of Being

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Winters Bane - Heart Of Killer

[FatherAlabaster]

9 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Got into a little disagreement with one of my metalhead friends on our text thread a week ago. One dude posted that he was stuck for something to listen to next and asked for suggestions. So this other dude says you should play the new Ad Nauseam - III album, said he was quite taken with it. So not being familiar I checked it out as well and then posted that I didn't get it, how is this even music? To me it sounded so atonal to the degree that I thought maybe the album could've been made by monkeys or some dudes that didn't know how to play their instruments. Which is of course hyperbole but we went back and forth a little bit and he was clearly butt hurt at my assesment as if I had been attacking or impugning him personally and calling his musical tastes or even his manhood into question. So I haven't been back to participate with the gang in 10 days, I've just been ignoring my phone's incessant text notifications which in my case sound like a beer bottle being opened and the bottle cap hitting the floor. I can't post with people with insecurity issues who take it personally and play the victim when I declare some band or album blows. I call 'em like I see 'em so that is going to happen but I mean it's just my dumbass opinion, and who the fuck am I? I'm just tawkin' ovuh heeyah.

 

But my real question is, what's the deal with this album? Sounds like they made a mistake when mixing or mastering and inadvertently have two different tracks coming out of the left and right channels. I don't really know how to approach or listen to unsettling music like this that has no form and no beat and instead  just has a bunch of noises that don't fit in with the rest. Seems more like an intellectual exercize than what I think of as "music" and I guess I'm not smart enough to get it. Whatever "it" is. What is this in 19/13 time or something? I bet Doc probably loves this shit haha.

Huh, that's interesting. I would have thought you'd find more in this to sink your teeth into, given some of the other stuff you listen to. I think it's great. The interplay between the guitars is the best part for me - I love the way they trade off different textures and different parts of phrases, the way one of them will go on some excursion to introduce a new idea and then the rest of the music will shift underneath it to support it in a totally different way. And I love how transparent and intentional they were about that in the mix. I feel like the really dry left-right scheme draws attention to their ideas and their playing in a way that a more traditional "riffs doubled out to the sides, leads and harmonies in the middle" mix wouldn't. I also love the shifting rhythms, the way they'll take the same part and chop it down finer or spool it out in increasing lengths depending on where the song is going. I can definitely see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but to me it feels like the marriage of ideas and execution I've been waiting for out of the dissonant black/DM crowd. My favorite release so far this year by a mile.

[FatherAlabaster]

44 minutes ago, ratpfink said:

Yeah this was probably 20 years ago when I first read Dune. IMO, it's probably the best sci-fi novel ever written. I think I only made it through Dune Messiah and maybe Children of Dune. All I remember is that they weren't as good! Sounds like you think I should continue down all the Frank Hebert sequels though?

 

NP: Atlantean Kodex - The Course Of Empire

I love them all, yeah. Dune Messiah and Children Of Dune took me a bit longer to get into. I guess they didn't have as clean of an arc, and it sucked to see characters I had grown to love get dragged through the mud. Good but not as fulfilling. A lot of people fault God Emperor (the fourth one) for being particularly slow and navel-gazing, but I think there's a narrative point to that, which starts to become clear in the last two books. The action definitely picks up in those. I enjoy them a ton. I couldn't stand the ones his son wrote, though, even if they are based on Frank Herbert's outline. I'd be interested to hear what you think of them all if you do wind up tackling them at some point.

[JohanV]

2 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

@Johnny5 that dude from Saille looks like the blonde dude from Hall & Oates after a 5 day bender.

Do you think Johnny5 and me are the same? If that's the case it is not the case mate. I don't know who he is.

Also, I truly like the in depth discussions and the articulate writing to describe albums, music styles and what not. Maybe because I am not native English speaker, although I practise for some 38 years English, I by no means will be able to describe why an album is specifically good or not. For Ad Nauseam for instance I am listening with my teeth crushed together with my jaws under hypertension trying to get what is going on while really liking it at the same time. It was a great read from both you Goatmaster and Father A. to find out why the pro and con!

[GoatmasterGeneral]

28 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Huh, that's interesting. I would have thought you'd find more in this to sink your teeth into, given some of the other stuff you listen to. I think it's great. The interplay between the guitars is the best part for me - I love the way they trade off different textures and different parts of phrases, the way one of them will go on some excursion to introduce a new idea and then the rest of the music will shift underneath it to support it in a totally different way. And I love how transparent and intentional they were about that in the mix. I feel like the really dry left-right scheme draws attention to their ideas and their playing in a way that a more traditional "riffs doubled out to the sides, leads and harmonies in the middle" mix wouldn't. I also love the shifting rhythms, the way they'll take the same part and chop it down finer or spool it out in increasing lengths depending on where the song is going. I can definitely see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but to me it feels like the marriage of ideas and execution I've been waiting for out of the dissonant black/DM crowd. My favorite release so far this year by a mile.

Well don't put any stock in what I say, I was born in the 60's, grew up in the 70's and fell in love with metal in the 80's. That was a long time ago now and although harsh vocals were a small speed bump I had to get past (and ultimately embrace) in the early 2000's that was nothing compared to the impassable road block dissonant and atonal music presents to me. 

I have struggled mightily with the dissonant and atonal ends of the extreme metal spectrum over the last 10 years or so. I have made some small headway with dissonance over the years and there are a few things I have learned to enjoy like the Incantation debut for instance or Abyssal. But for the most part I steer clear of it. While I would put Inquisitors of Satan in my top 25 black metal albums of all time, I can't listen to anything DSO recorded past 2002, no Gorguts for me or Ulcerate or Artificial Brian or Portal...even bands like Immolation and Morbid Angel that seem to be almost universally loved take things a little too far for me. I'm a meat & potatoes caveman guy and I'm OK with that.

Atonality though is a different story, I honestly don't get it at all on any level. I am not understanding the point of it, how this music is written or structured or how to approach listening to it. Obviously these types of bands with their odd time sigs and lack of harmony are not going for foot tapping head bobbing groovy goodness. And that's fine, to each his own, but it leaves me out of the loop as it were because I feel like I'm maybe just not smart enough to decipher and comprehend what it is they're trying to do. My brain keeps searching for harmony and order and rythym but there is none and that disturbs me. I can't make sense of it, it just feels like random notes flying out all over the place with no rhyme or reason.

I like riffy songs in 4/4 time that I can bop along to. Trained musicians who are music theory mavens like you apparently get what's going on with bands like Ad Nauseam or Pyrrhon and can see the skill and artistry and brilliance and creativity and how it all fits together and how it is in fact "music" - but it's all lost on my dumb ass. The artistry and proficiency and creativity simply flies way over my head. It all just sounds like noise to me.

But I mean I am glad to hear you've found a standout album this year that pleases you. I know that feeling well and it's glorious. I would not ever seek to impose my ignorant closed-minded neanderthal limitations on anyone else. I'm a postmodernist by nature I suppose and I tend to reject conventional ideas of universal objective truths. Or in other words there is no scientificly objective way to measure what is good or not good, at least most certainly not as it relates to art and music. We all like what we like and that's what we think is "good" or "true" in each of our own little worlds, and at the end of the road that's all that really matters. If we can connect with another soul(s) in this crazy world who sees things the way we do and we can share and appreciate art and music together well so much the better.

 

Reading that last paragraph back before I click Submit I guess it might sound a little out there. I'm not even stoned or tripping or inebriated or anything, I swear.

 

Now Playing:

Vomit Ritual - Callous

Badass bangin' black/death debut from Riverside Cali. Fuck yeah!

 

1 hour ago, JohanV said:

Do you think Johnny5 and me are the same? If that's the case it is not the case mate. I don't know who he is.

Also, I truly like the in depth discussions and the articulate writing to describe albums, music styles and what not. Maybe because I am not native English speaker, although I practise for some 38 years English, I by no means will be able to describe why an album is specifically good or not. For Ad Nauseam for instance I am listening with my teeth crushed together with my jaws under hypertension trying to get what is going on while really liking it at the same time. It was a great read from both you Goatmaster and Father A. to find out why the pro and con!

Hahaha yes!! Johnny 5 is the nickname I have assigned to you in my head. Please understand that my buddy Johan from Sweden is already Johan to me and no matter what he chages his username to be it Sheol or Shamrock or Shitforbrains after 5 years he will always be Johan to me. So since I can't call you both Johan here on the board I have taken the liberty of Americanising your name from Johan to Johnny. And the 5 is just me making the V into Roman numeral V that represents 5. Because you see there was a silly movie from the 1986 called Short Circuit that featured a robot named Johnny 5. Don't be confused or offended, I give everyone nicknames it's what I do. It means you've been accepted into the gang.

[BMB]

Aara - En Ergô Einai

[MacabreEternal]

Vreid - Wild North West

[Kristiko]

Type O Negative - The Origin Of Feces (album)

[BMB]

Dauþuz - Des Zwerges Fluch

[BMB]

Mānbryne - Heilsweg: O udręce ciała i tułaczce duszy

[GoatmasterGeneral]

Oldskull - Nether Hollow of No Return, dm Thailand

 

Haven't pulled the trigger on that Mānbryne yet either Black Metal Billy. I do remember liking it the two times I've played it, but something's making me hesitant.

[MacabreEternal]

Cloven Hoof - Age of Steel

[BMB]

18 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Haven't pulled the trigger on that Mānbryne yet either Black Metal Billy. I do remember liking it the two times I've played it, but something's making me hesitant.

IMO, choosing one of the weakest tracks to end the album on does give it a slight anticlimax.

Misþyrming - Algleymi 

[Kristiko]

System of a Down - Mezmerize (album)

[Athame]

Izmoroz - Chupacabra

[GoatmasterGeneral]

Zoebeast - Aduckolypse, Russian grind 'n roll

 

Kürøishi - Sound the Alarm, Finnish D-beat crust

 

Downwinder - S/T LP, Greek crust

 

FŌR - The Life Feeding Flame, crushing Swedish death/doom

 

Apostasy - Death Return, Chilean death/thrash

 

[Hungarino]

Ad Nauseam...and it is terrible haha. But to each his own. I respect these guys for endeavoring to make such 'challenging', i.e., terrible sounding music. It is not uninteresting to the ears, but in a a way that just feels wrong. It is unsettling and the opposite of banging.

Like our Noisey friend, I am of a simpler ilk. If I cannot band my head or worship satan (preferably both) to it then more times than not its not going to be my cuppa'.

Now onto Ad Omega and it slays pretty hard! Even a few discordant phrases here and there, but not enough to turn me off. Evil, dark, punishing, good stuff. I love me some Italian black metal. If they would kick it into a higher gear just a little more I would be in goat heaven...which is hell? You get the idea.

[Natassja]

Osculum Infame Dor Nu Fauglith

[navybsn]

No Satan, no go for me either Hungdog. And General, I am a classically trained musician (trombone, tuba, electric bass, and upright bass) with extensive music theory education, but I'm not down with most atonal music. I haven't checked out Ad Nauseum, not going to either. I can tell from the description that I won't enjoy it. Don't care much for Portal or their Ilk (looking at you Altarage) either. Imperial Triumphant and Pyrrhon can fuck right off too. About the only thing along those lines I do like is Teitanblood. I equate most of that stuff with free jazz, which I admire but can't listen to and enjoy save for a few exceptions.

Stuff like Immolation and Gorguts are completely different to me. Those guys bring atonality and discordance into somewhat recognizable song structures that you can remember. Bop your head to even. It's still musical to my ears whereas the other stuff is not. And total transparency for our new brethren, the MFi gang know I'm a huge Immolation fanboy. Favorite death metal band of all time for Navy here. The only starstruck moments I've ever had were meeting Rob Vigna, Ihsahn, and Samoth (Emperor is another huge favorite). 

BTW - glad you liked that Pale Swordsman. It's definitely influenced 2nd wave stuff without being derivative. I'll take that crust dump as my reward for helping turn you on to it 😉.

And I had also named JohanV "Johnny 5" in my head. Even picture the little robot when I'm reading his posts.

[Hungarino]

6 minutes ago, navybsn said:

 About the only thing along those lines I do like is Teitanblood. I equate most of that stuff with free jazz, which I admire but can't listen to and enjoy save for a few exceptions.

I get none of that vibe from the unfuckwithable Teitanblood brother - they have always been straight war-black-death-goat sadists in my book. But they do some funky shit here and there.

I am DIGGING this Darkspace III that I got from your BC, btw! 

[navybsn]

32 minutes ago, Hungarino said:

I get none of that vibe from the unfuckwithable Teitanblood brother - they have always been straight war-black-death-goat sadists in my book. But they do some funky shit here and there.

I am DIGGING this Darkspace III that I got from your BC, btw! 

True. I think the same thing with Teitanblood, but I see a lot of people throw them in the same sort of group of hard to decipher inaccessible music. To some, war-black-death-goat sadist doesn't sound much different from avante-death-experimental in the same way that free jazz and fusion sound similar to others. So I see why. I guess my point in name dropping them was to say that is where I draw the line with atonal or discordant music. And because there's never a bad time to name drop the Spanish gods!

Darkspace is something special. I have all their stuff but lost track of the CDs somewhere along the way. III is the best, but the others are good too. Glad to hear you're digging it!

[FatherAlabaster]

6 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Well don't put any stock in what I say, I was born in the 60's, grew up in the 70's and fell in love with metal in the 80's. That was a long time ago now and although harsh vocals were a small speed bump I had to get past (and ultimately embrace) in the early 2000's that was nothing compared to the impassable road block dissonant and atonal music presents to me. 

I have struggled mightily with the dissonant and atonal ends of the extreme metal spectrum over the last 10 years or so. I have made some small headway with dissonance over the years and there are a few things I have learned to enjoy like the Incantation debut for instance or Abyssal. But for the most part I steer clear of it. While I would put Inquisitors of Satan in my top 25 black metal albums of all time, I can't listen to anything DSO recorded past 2002, no Gorguts for me or Ulcerate or Artificial Brian or Portal...even bands like Immolation and Morbid Angel that seem to be almost universally loved take things a little too far for me. I'm a meat & potatoes caveman guy and I'm OK with that.

Atonality though is a different story, I honestly don't get it at all on any level. I am not understanding the point of it, how this music is written or structured or how to approach listening to it. Obviously these types of bands with their odd time sigs and lack of harmony are not going for foot tapping head bobbing groovy goodness. And that's fine, to each his own, but it leaves me out of the loop as it were because I feel like I'm maybe just not smart enough to decipher and comprehend what it is they're trying to do. My brain keeps searching for harmony and order and rythym but there is none and that disturbs me. I can't make sense of it, it just feels like random notes flying out all over the place with no rhyme or reason.

I like riffy songs in 4/4 time that I can bop along to. Trained musicians who are music theory mavens like you apparently get what's going on with bands like Ad Nauseam or Pyrrhon and can see the skill and artistry and brilliance and creativity and how it all fits together and how it is in fact "music" - but it's all lost on my dumb ass. The artistry and proficiency and creativity simply flies way over my head. It all just sounds like noise to me.

But I mean I am glad to hear you've found a standout album this year that pleases you. I know that feeling well and it's glorious. I would not ever seek to impose my ignorant closed-minded neanderthal limitations on anyone else. I'm a postmodernist by nature I suppose and I tend to reject conventional ideas of universal objective truths. Or in other words there is no scientificly objective way to measure what is good or not good, at least most certainly not as it relates to art and music. We all like what we like and that's what we think is "good" or "true" in each of our own little worlds, and at the end of the road that's all that really matters. If we can connect with another soul(s) in this crazy world who sees things the way we do and we can share and appreciate art and music together well so much the better.

 

Reading that last paragraph back before I click Submit I guess it might sound a little out there. I'm not even stoned or tripping or inebriated or anything, I swear.

 

Now Playing:

Vomit Ritual - Callous

Badass bangin' black/death debut from Riverside Cali. Fuck yeah!

 

Maybe some kind of "music knowledge" would be helpful in making some of this stuff feel more relevant to you, but I think it really comes down to taste, and yeah, of course that's totally subjective. I know people with a ton of musical knowledge and ability who feel a lot more like you about the stuff that they actually want to listen to. And I'm not a huge theory buff. I gravitate towards more complicated music, and I like a challenge, but there's also plenty of stuff that I think goes way too far up its own ass. I don't want to hear an intellectual exercise, I want to hear great ideas in the service of something that feels authentic. Every once in a while an album comes along that seems to pull ideas out of my head, take them way farther than I ever have, and tie them up in a neat little bow, as if to say, that's how it's done. That's how the latest Ad Nauseam album feels to me. But then of course there are dozens of albums that make other people feel that way, that I just completely don't get, or can't stand, or miss out on for whatever reason. I have to say the sheer amount of new stuff you take in is impressive. I can't do it. I can focus on two or three albums at a time, any more than that and I start to burn out.

3 hours ago, Hungarino said:

Ad Nauseam...and it is terrible haha. 

 

1 hour ago, navybsn said:

 I haven't checked out Ad Nauseum, not going to either. I can tell from the description that I won't enjoy it. 

Never mind, I'm surrounded by Philistines

Navy, you might like the Ad Nauseam album, they're not chaos for its own sake in the way that Portal is and they don't get all hipster spazzy like some of the NYC bands. If you enjoy later Gorguts you just might maaaaybe find something of value in there.