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FreddyFruitcake

Favourite Vocalist

199 posts in this topic

I saw Uriah Heep with Priest on their Abominog tour in Evansville, IN. They were great! It was freaky too, the organ player looked just like the demon face on the album cover!

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3 minutes ago, Siderian said:

Mike Patton (FNM), Johnny Morrow (Iron Monkey), Grady Avenell (Will Haven) and Chino Moreno (Deftones).  

I love Iron Monkey's vocals, that dude was legitimately disturbed. 

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Just now, FatherAlabaster said:

I love Iron Monkey's vocals, that dude was legitimately disturbed. 

I remember a mate playing me "Our Problem" when I was about 16, I was bang into my nu-metal back then, and Morrow's unhinged vocals scared the crap out of me. He was genuinely unique, not everyone's cup of tea, but he was phenomenal.

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without any hesitation my favorite vocalist is Geoff Tate from Queensryche.  No other singer in metal history has the range that Geoff has. 

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I love threads like this. Can't believe I missed it the first fifty times around. Here are the vocalists who soothe my savage breast: 

Peter Steele - Type O Negative. As a notorious gothic metal fanatic, for me the voices don't come much more glorious than Peter Steele. 'Bloody Kisses', 'October Rust' and 'World Coming Down' exclusively though. Girls, wine, the woods at night. 

Jonas Renkse - Katatonia. I remember the growing clarity between 'Discouraged Ones' and 'Tonight's Decision' and just love that clear, heartbroken tone. 

Tomi Joutsen - Amorphis. Amazing growls, amazing cleans, perfect for the band and the ancient Finnish lyrics. 

Dead - Mayhem. "When it's cold and when it's dark, the freezing moon can obsess you...."

Thomas Vanaanen - ex Thyrfing. Growls with an amazing tone and desperation that was just perfect for this viking metal band. 

Thomas AG Jensen - Saturnus. Perfect tone whether spoken word, mid-range growling or full on doom growls. So versatile.

Vincent Cavanagh - Especially in the mid to late 90s where his voice presented a haunting honesty. 

Hansi Kursch - Blind Guardian. Great range and great vocal ideas. Love the Queen meets Maiden thing of the last four or so albums. 

Liv Kristine - Theatre of Tragedy/Leaves Eyes. My favourite female vocalist from her work in Theatre of Tragedy. 

 

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8 hours ago, Godsmackgirl42 said:

without any hesitation my favorite vocalist is Geoff Tate from Queensryche.  No other singer in metal history has the range that Geoff has. 

I love Geoff's vocals up through some songs on Promised Land - although I have grown to dislike the cheese factor - but he's not even close to having the widest range in metal. There was a kerfuffle online a while ago where some folks analyzed a bunch of metal vocal recordings in an attempt to determine just this, and at first they crowned Axl Rose the winner in the "widest range" category, which prompted protests and revisions, after which Axl fell back a few places, and here's what they came up with:

http://www.vintagevinylnews.com/2014/05/digging-deeper-axl-rose-is-not-singer.html

Suffice it to say that Geoff is fairly far down the list, although still in pretty good company... which shouldn't really have any bearing on whether or not he's your personal favorite.

@Requiem, I noticed the same thing with Renkse between those two albums and it's probably what cemented my liking for Katatonia. Hansi is another favorite of mine, but I get pretty turned off by BG's music most of the time and prefer him in Demons And Wizards. Surprised (though not disappointed) that Nick Holmes isn't on your list...

Godsmackgirl42 gave this Horns Up!

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2 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

I love Geoff's vocals up through some songs on Promised Land - although I have grown to dislike the cheese factor - but he's not even close to having the widest range in metal. There was a kerfuffle online a while ago where some folks analyzed a bunch of metal vocal recordings in an attempt to determine just this, and at first they crowned Axl Rose the winner in the "widest range" category, which prompted protests and revisions, after which Axl fell back a few places, and here's what they came up with:

http://www.vintagevinylnews.com/2014/05/digging-deeper-axl-rose-is-not-singer.html

Suffice it to say that Geoff is fairly far down the list, although still in pretty good company... which shouldn't really have any bearing on whether or not he's your personal favorite.

@Requiem, I noticed the same thing with Renkse between those two albums and it's probably what cemented my liking for Katatonia. Hansi is another favorite of mine, but I get pretty turned off by BG's music most of the time and prefer him in Demons And Wizards. Surprised (though not disappointed) that Nick Holmes isn't on your list...

Just checked out that list of widest ranging vocalists. With monotonal mainstays like Tom Araya being credited with a four octave range, only just behind Ville Valo from HIM, and Slipknot's Corey Taylor being higher than Mariah Carey (in fact he is number two on the list!), you'll forgive my incredulity.

FatherA you're very perceptive to see I've left out Nick Holmes. While he and Aaron Stainthorpe are two singers who do mean a lot to me and are in two of my favourite bands, I simply can't place them objectively in my list of favourite singers. I love them both dearly though and couldn't imagine their bands without them.

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Piotr Wizzgfhzzzhzarghsomething from Vader must be hands down my favourite metal vocalist. Shame that his last name is impossible to write properly. :D 

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40 minutes ago, Requiem said:

 you'll forgive my incredulity.

It doesn't seem far fetched to me. From my understanding, it's based on the highest and lowest notes each singer hit over all of their studio recordings, not saying any of them could walk on stage and turn in x number of octaves on a moment's notice. Tom Araya hit some piercing falsetto notes. I'm not familiar with HIM or Slipknot, but several of the other stated ranges are mentioned elsewhere. Also, for whatever it's worth, "the internet" was all over this at the time, which is what prompted this revised chart. Given all the attention it got, I'd imagine some egghead would have been happy to debunk it if it didn't check out.

Having said all of that, I don't think it's particularly meaningful; a raw statement of "range" has nothing to do with tone or control or expressiveness or anything else that goes into making a voice great. Godsmackgirl42 can say Geoff Tate is her favorite vocalist, he's certainly high on my list (despite the last 20+ years of absolute shit he's turned out), but the claim that "no other metal singer in history" has his range is objectively false.

As far as the other part of your post, I suppose I just look at it differently - I don't think there's anything objective about picking favorites, that seems like an oxymoron. "Most skilled" is a different conversation.

GrayscaleDawn gave this Horns Up!

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3 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

 

It doesn't seem far fetched to me. From my understanding, it's based on the highest and lowest notes each singer hit over all of their studio recordings, not saying any of them could walk on stage and turn in x number of octaves on a moment's notice. Tom Araya hit some piercing falsetto notes. I'm not familiar with HIM or Slipknot, but several of the other stated ranges are mentioned elsewhere. Also, for whatever it's worth, "the internet" was all over this at the time, which is what prompted this revised chart. Given all the attention it got, I'd imagine some egghead would have been happy to debunk it if it didn't check out.

Having said all of that, I don't think it's particularly meaningful; a raw statement of "range" has nothing to do with tone or control or expressiveness or anything else that goes into making a voice great. Godsmackgirl42 can say Geoff Tate is her favorite vocalist, he's certainly high on my list (despite the last 20+ years of absolute shit he's turned out), but the claim that "no other metal singer in history" has his range is objectively false.

As far as the other part of your post, I suppose I just look at it differently - I don't think there's anything objective about picking favorites, that seems like an oxymoron. "Most skilled" is a different conversation.

I maintain that it is indeed a good idea to apply incredulity to this list. Here's why:

First of all, it seems hardly undertaken by what I would deem a reliable, peer reviewed source. Certainly it looks very impressive with its spectrum of keys, and I'm sure it was compiled with conviction and good intentions. But do you really think these people plowed through the entire catalogues (or a large sample thereof) of artists as wide ranging as Slayer and Mariah Carey with sufficient diligence to arrive at accuracy? This would be a mammoth undertaking. I question the compilation of data. 

Secondly, I'm sure you recall that Axl Rose was initially crowned as having the 'broadest range', an announcement which did meet with significant internet criticism. Instead of sticking to their guns and explaining that their list was based on plausible scientific measures, they said, "Actually you're right, let's rejig this list a bit" and they've come up with this new order. This is scientific dishonesty and undermines their methods. If that doesn't raise an eyebrow from one as learned as you, FatherAlabaster, then I don't know what would.

For all I know it may be right, and I'm not calling it outright nonsense as I have no unshakeable reason to doubt it, although the Axl Rose palaver is good enough. I'm simply questioning whether Corey Talyor and Tom Araya have had at any stages of their careers wider vocal ranges than Mariah Carey who was at one time known for just that. Please note I am not a Carey fan. Does this seem right to you?

To address your second point, I employ the term 'objectively' in relation to choices appearing in my favourites list in the sense that if I look at my taste honestly and without trying to stack it with singers simply because they are from my favourite bands, I can not include either Holmes or Stainthorpe. Of course my list is subjective as far as its relation to anyone else's favourite singers. Rest assured, both Holmes and Stainthorpe are not far away.  

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1 hour ago, Requiem said:

I maintain that it is indeed a good idea to apply incredulity to this list. Here's why:

First of all, it seems hardly undertaken by what I would deem a reliable, peer reviewed source. Certainly it looks very impressive with its spectrum of keys, and I'm sure it was compiled with conviction and good intentions. But do you really think these people plowed through the entire catalogues (or a large sample thereof) of artists as wide ranging as Slayer and Mariah Carey with sufficient diligence to arrive at accuracy? This would be a mammoth undertaking. I question the compilation of data. 

Secondly, I'm sure you recall that Axl Rose was initially crowned as having the 'broadest range', an announcement which did meet with significant internet criticism. Instead of sticking to their guns and explaining that their list was based on plausible scientific measures, they said, "Actually you're right, let's rejig this list a bit" and they've come up with this new order. This is scientific dishonesty and undermines their methods. If that doesn't raise an eyebrow from one as learned as you, FatherAlabaster, then I don't know what would.

For all I know it may be right, and I'm not calling it outright nonsense as I have no unshakeable reason to doubt it, although the Axl Rose palaver is good enough. I'm simply questioning whether Corey Talyor and Tom Araya have had at any stages of their careers wider vocal ranges than Mariah Carey who was at one time known for just that. Please note I am not a Carey fan. Does this seem right to you?

To address your second point, I employ the term 'objectively' in relation to choices appearing in my favourites list in the sense that if I look at my taste honestly and without trying to stack it with singers simply because they are from my favourite bands, I can not include either Holmes or Stainthorpe. Of course my list is subjective as far as its relation to anyone else's favourite singers. Rest assured, both Holmes and Stainthorpe are not far away.  

You seem to think I'm taking this list as gospel. I'm not; I'm saying it seems more plausible to me than it does to you. It's funny that you'd talk about "scientific dishonesty" in an argument that's essentially based on your own gut feelings. And speaking to that point, in principle, reaching new conclusions based on an expanded data set isn't dishonest at all.

In any case, though, that's not what happened here - the lists were clickbait published by two different websites. As much fun as it would be to have a classic "two people on the internet" argument about who thinks they sound most likely to be right, you may find it more enlightening to read through some threads on "The Range Place" forum. It's apparently what these lists were based on. There, you will find that you are partially right - the lists in the articles are based on incomplete data, and any rankings (as worthless as they are IMO) are going to change as vocalists are added and their catalogs researched more thoroughly. The users there panned the articles (VVN did seem to make an effort to update theirs with new information, but I could see a charge of "journalistic dishonesty" sticking to Concert Hotels, the original publisher of the list Axl Rose topped). However, you'll also find that this group of people actually does seem dedicated to plowing through a large amount of music in a pretty meticulous way, and they're constantly updating information and having discussions about the parameters they use to determine what to include. So it's not complete bullshit. It may even be worth following that forum if you genuinely care. The extremes are where most of the debate, controversy, and subjectivity seem to occur...

...and to beat that horse again, Geoff Tate isn't there. He had a four octave range at his best. That's pretty fucking good, but it's not the widest by a long shot. And after all of this, I still fail to see what bearing that has on choosing a personal favorite.

Sometimes arguing is fun. This has been one of those times for me. I hope it has been for you as well.

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1 hour ago, FatherAlabaster said:

You seem to think I'm taking this list as gospel. I'm not; I'm saying it seems more plausible to me than it does to you. It's funny that you'd talk about "scientific dishonesty" in an argument that's essentially based on your own gut feelings. And speaking to that point, in principle, reaching new conclusions based on an expanded data set isn't dishonest at all.

In any case, though, that's not what happened here - the lists were clickbait published by two different websites. As much fun as it would be to have a classic "two people on the internet" argument about who thinks they sound most likely to be right, you may find it more enlightening to read through some threads on "The Range Place" forum. It's apparently what these lists were based on. There, you will find that you are partially right - the lists in the articles are based on incomplete data, and any rankings (as worthless as they are IMO) are going to change as vocalists are added and their catalogs researched more thoroughly. The users there panned the articles (VVN did seem to make an effort to update theirs with new information, but I could see a charge of "journalistic dishonesty" sticking to Concert Hotels, the original publisher of the list Axl Rose topped). However, you'll also find that this group of people actually does seem dedicated to plowing through a large amount of music in a pretty meticulous way, and they're constantly updating information and having discussions about the parameters they use to determine what to include. So it's not complete bullshit. It may even be worth following that forum if you genuinely care. The extremes are where most of the debate, controversy, and subjectivity seem to occur...

...and to beat that horse again, Geoff Tate isn't there. He had a four octave range at his best. That's pretty fucking good, but it's not the widest by a long shot. And after all of this, I still fail to see what bearing that has on choosing a personal favorite.

Sometimes arguing is fun. This has been one of those times for me. I hope it has been for you as well.

I have to be honest, I'm not even sure what you're arguing here anymore. In other news, FatherAlabaster, I've got a jar of snack oil here, good for all ailments. You interested? 

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2 minutes ago, Requiem said:

I have to be honest, I'm not even sure what you're arguing here anymore. In other news, FatherAlabaster, I've got a jar of snack oil here, good for all ailments. You interested? 

Oh, disappointing retreat on your part. That's OK. "Snack oil" sounds delicious, I like snacks and I'm suffering from plenty of ailments at the moment. If you can mail it internationally, I'll PM you my address.

On topic, I'm happy I finally warmed up to Vintersorg's vocals, especially on Borknagar's "Empiricism". Dude is on point, but somehow it took me years to appreciate that.

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10 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Oh, disappointing retreat on your part. That's OK. "Snack oil" sounds delicious, I like snacks and I'm suffering from plenty of ailments at the moment. If you can mail it internationally, I'll PM you my address.

On topic, I'm happy I finally warmed up to Vintersorg's vocals, especially on Borknagar's "Empiricism". Dude is on point, but somehow it took me years to appreciate that.

LOL 'snack' oil. That's brilliant. 

I love Vintersorg's vocals and he's in my next ten or so vocalists. He's great. I love the current Borknagar vocal line-up of V, ICS Vortex and Lars. So good. I really liked 'Winter Thrice', especially Garm's guest vocals. You can't have too many singers in a Borknagar song I reckon. 'Empiricism' is a great album. I actually have a lot of time for all eras of Borknagar. 

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2 minutes ago, Requiem said:

LOL 'snack' oil. That's brilliant. 

I love Vintersorg's vocals and he's in my next ten or so vocalists. He's great. I love the current Borknagar vocal line-up of V, ICS Vortex and Lars. So good. I really liked 'Winter Thrice', especially Garm's guest vocals. You can't have too many singers in a Borknagar song I reckon. 'Empiricism' is a great album. I actually have a lot of time for all eras of Borknagar. 

You'll be unsurprised to learn that I was a Garm-only stalwart for years. His harsh vocals are still a highlight of metal in general for me. I haven't gotten to "Winter Thrice" yet; by all indications I'll probably start enjoying it sometime around the end of the world in 2020.

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10 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

You'll be unsurprised to learn that I was a Garm-only stalwart for years. His harsh vocals are still a highlight of metal in general for me. I haven't gotten to "Winter Thrice" yet; by all indications I'll probably start enjoying it sometime around the end of the world in 2020.

You've got something to look forward to then. The song he guests on, the title track 'Winter Thrice' is my favourite Borknagar track of all. Big call I know, considering their body of work, but it's just transcendent. Took a few listens though, mind. 

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My favorite vocalist is Dani Filth....He can scream and he can hit a lot of high notes...

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