Christian Black Metal

[Scullicon]

Hmm, Christian Black Metal. I see i problem already in the term. The term Black Metal do come from Venom's album, whoever used it first and which band it was referred to i cant say. already there and later the term have mainly been related to a satanic image. unarguably of the bands are serious about that or not. I dont care however christians play Black Metal or that they play the same typ of music. But to call Metal with a christian message Black Metal does only make my brain hurt. Unblack Metal is also just silly. Lifemetal would be more fitting.

[Iceni]

Unblack Metal is also just silly. Lifemetal would be more fitting.

Do you mean white metal? Some people use that term, I don't like it...it makes no sense and engages in the same silly war of symbols waged by every band who tips a cross upside-down and forgets that doing so is symbolic of humility, not blasphemy. Life metal would be the opposite of death metal. The thing is, that would be stupid and thankfully no Christian band has adopted it yet, black metal or otherwise. Even Christian Rivel and Tommy Johansson haven't used it.

[Scullicon]

Do you mean white metal? Some people use that term, I don't like it...it makes no sense and engages in the same silly war of symbols waged by every band who tips a cross upside-down and forgets that doing so is symbolic of humility, not blasphemy. Life metal would be the opposite of death metal. The thing is, that would be stupid and thankfully no Christian band has adopted it yet, black metal or otherwise. Even Christian Rivel and Tommy Johansson haven't used it.

yeah white metal is also a really bad name. Black Metal do have kind of a certain sound thou, so if some people use it and play so called christian black metal i dont really care. But it feels wrong.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Christian Black Metal Tbh It just sounds ridiculous.

[RelentlessOblivion]

the term "Black Metal" doesn't refer exclusively to Satanic, Anti-Christian or Anti-theological bands but rather to a particular sound which has evolved from the early days of Venom and become as diverse in sound and lyrical content as you could imagine. For example Burzum's sound and lyrics are nothing like the sound and lyrics of Melechesh, Gorgoroth are nothing like Absu and so on. In that sense there is nothing wrong with "Christian" Black Metal as the genre is defined by sound and not by imagery or ideology. Despite being an atheist I have absolutely no problem with Christian sentiment in metal just as I have no issue with Satanic sentiment in metal. I firmly believe that good music should be treated as such regardless of the themes it touches on provided those themes aren't promoting violence or hate towards our fellow man.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Christian Black Metal Christian black Metal is like a vegetarian meat feast pizza.

[BlutAusNerd]

the term "Black Metal" doesn't refer exclusively to Satanic' date=' Anti-Christian or Anti-theological bands but rather to a particular sound which has evolved from the early days of Venom and become as diverse in sound and lyrical content as you could imagine. For example Burzum's sound and lyrics are nothing like the sound and lyrics of Melechesh, Gorgoroth are nothing like Absu and so on. In that sense there is nothing wrong with "Christian" Black Metal as the genre is defined by sound and not by imagery or ideology. Despite being an atheist I have absolutely no problem with Christian sentiment in metal just as I have no issue with Satanic sentiment in metal. I firmly believe that good music should be treated as such regardless of the themes it touches on provided those themes aren't promoting violence or hate towards our fellow man.[/quote'] Black metal is first and foremost a genre of metal music, and is identified by its sound. Black metal also tends to embody certain feelings and emotions, the most prevalent of which tend to be hatred and evil. Should a christian black metal band fit the criteria, I don't really see what the problem is, since black metal does have many philosophical and religious views behind it that vary from band to band. I think the problem that many people have is that christian black metal tends to be so as an intentional inversion to traditional black metal, and does not convey the same feeling that is needed for something to be called black metal. This doesn't mean that christian black metal is impossible or a contradiction, but IMO I feel that it should focus on similar topics to drive the rage and hatred needed to produce good black metal, even if what is hated and/or the viewpoint behind evil is inverted.

[Iceni]

Christian black Metal is like a vegetarian meat feast pizza.

Listen to 'A Forlorn Throne' by Slechtvalk, '10,000 Thoughts of Violence' by Kekal and 'Undecieved' by Extol and let's hear you say that one more time.

Black metal is first and foremost a genre of metal music' date=' and is identified by its sound. Black metal also tends to embody certain feelings and emotions, the most prevalent of which tend to be hatred and evil. Should a christian black metal band fit the criteria, I don't really see what the problem is, since black metal does have many philosophical and religious views behind it that vary from band to band. [Christian black metal'] should focus on similar topics to drive the rage and hatred needed to produce good black metal, even if what is hated and/or the viewpoint behind evil is inverted.

You're inspired me. If rage is a prerequisite then maybe I'm an...'unblack' metal musician in the making, who knows. I can play folky riffs, now I just need to learn to do good tremolo and palm muting and I'll be off to a good start.

[forge]

Christian black Metal is like a vegetarian meat feast pizza.

Now that's funny. I guess Christian metal bands could just call themselves Christian metal, or if they want to be a little more specific, Christian extreme metal? I don't know. I guess black metal has too much of a certain connotation. I guess anyone could write a song about anything, but if you say the words black metal to someone on the street, odds are they'll associate it with the decidedly non-Christian bands. So if someone wanted to be in a Christian metal band, I think the term Christian metal would be the simplest term to use. Then they can just say fast or whatever.

[Iceni]

I guess Christian metal bands could just call themselves Christian metal' date=' or if they want to be a little more specific, Christian extreme metal? I don't know. I guess black metal has too much of a certain connotation. I guess anyone could write a song about anything, but if you say the words black metal to someone on the street, odds are they'll associate it with the decidedly non-Christian bands. So if someone wanted to be in a Christian metal band, I think the term Christian metal would be the simplest term to use. Then they can just say fast or whatever.[/quote'] If you say the word 'metal' to people on the street they assume Satanism, it's not limited to black metal. My assumption is that this traditionalism is not based on genre consistency. Otherwise people who argue against 'unblack' might actually have a point. As it stands, I think the general anticlerical stance most metalheads tend to have is the real motivation for their refusal to judge the music based on its own merit. Ironically, this is making the same stupid mistake that metalheads tend to accuse other genres of making, that is putting too much importance on image rather than the music. The term 'Christian metal' is pointless because it doesn't indicate anything other than a theological position that shouldn't influence the music in any way outside of lyrical content. If people have a certain image that pops to mind when they think black metal, then that's their problem. Of all the musical genres in the universe metal is arguably most adversely affected when it bends to the pressure of convenience. Christian black metal bands are black metal, like it or not. Judge them on their musical ability.

[BlutAusNerd]

If you say the word 'metal' to people on the street they assume Satanism, it's not limited to black metal. My assumption is that this traditionalism is not based on genre consistency. Otherwise people who argue against 'unblack' might actually have a point. As it stands, I think the general anticlerical stance most metalheads tend to have is the real motivation for their refusal to judge the music based on its own merit. Ironically, this is making the same stupid mistake that metalheads tend to accuse other genres of making, that is putting too much importance on image rather than the music. The term 'Christian metal' is pointless because it doesn't indicate anything other than a theological position that shouldn't influence the music in any way outside of lyrical content. If people have a certain image that pops to mind when they think black metal, then that's their problem. Of all the musical genres in the universe metal is arguably most adversely affected when it bends to the pressure of convenience. Christian black metal bands are black metal, like it or not. Judge them on their musical ability.

There are very few that can do it well and not bend to the mere "black metal inversion" that I spoke of earlier. If they can feel the music and it does speak to them in some way, and they're just giving their interpretation of that, then I'm all for it. However, if it's just an attempt to look cool for their peers and/or try to force their way into a scene they're an outsider from (which is not a trait distinct to christian metal), then I don't see the point. The music comes first, your lyrics are just the words you speak when vocalizing, as I think the music speaks volumes more and in more personal and primal ways than mere words ever could. While I do like some of the bands you mentioned (I think I recommended Extol to you, didn't I?), they're more black metal influenced bands than black metal bands, and at least the latter two are more like extreme progressive metal and/or tech-death. One christian band I can think of that does pure black metal well is Antestor, sounding a bit like Dissection, but I can never find this album when I go to look for it: pPxkEJRPsbk They even got Hellhammer to do the drums for this album, so they've got to have some black metal credibility.

[Iceni]

I see Renascent on the recommendations, I remember them being pretty good. Maybe I should check up on them again. I'm listening to another progressive 'unblack' metal group, Drottnar, right now and it's great stuff.

[RelentlessOblivion]

it shouldn't be so hard for Christians to generate those hateful and vile sounds if playing Black Metal there's a truckload of hate and evil in the bible to dwell upon in fact even as an Atheist I would consider writing some lyrics inspired by certain passages of the bible because they are so easily re-purposed. I was going to mention Salem but they're Jewish not Christian and are more of a Blackened Death Metal band

[Iceni]

This actually reminds me a bit of Blut Aus Nord combined with Fleurety and a bit of technical death metal. KnuRo970h2U

[deathstorm]

I don't understand what you just said.

i was doing a wwe wrestler impressin sorry about that it whould be a akward moment when chirtsian black metal band doing a show with band dimmu bogir

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Christian Black Metal

Now that's funny. I guess Christian metal bands could just call themselves Christian metal, or if they want to be a little more specific, Christian extreme metal? I don't know. I guess black metal has too much of a certain connotation. I guess anyone could write a song about anything, but if you say the words black metal to someone on the street, odds are they'll associate it with the decidedly non-Christian bands. So if someone wanted to be in a Christian metal band, I think the term Christian metal would be the simplest term to use. Then they can just say fast or whatever.

Haha thanks And yeah I agree about that, Christian Extreme Metal sounds a lot better, Black Metal has and always will be known for satanic imagery, so why would any christian want to be associated with that?

[Iceni]

Black Metal has and always will be known for satanic imagery' date=' so why would any christian want to be associated with that?[/quote'] BAN, murph and I all answer that question in our posts in the last two or three pages.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Now Dave that isn't necessarily true. Black Metal has broadened far beyond Satanism and Anti-Theology. In fact Black Metal now is probably more varied lyrically then just about any other form of metal. Common elements remain such as the very distinct sound of vocals and guitar tone but lyrically now BM touches on everything from Middle-Eastern Gnosticism to Paganism to Viking mythology to the atrocities man commits unto man (see Salem). Of course you do still have Satanic and Anti-Theological lyrics however they are no more or less prevalent then any of the topics listed above or many other subjects for that matter. In that sense Christian Black Metal carries no negative connotations but is rather the simplest way of defining a band playing Black Metal with Christian lyrics and imagery.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Christian Black Metal

Now Dave that isn't necessarily true. Black Metal has broadened far beyond Satanism and Anti-Theology. In fact Black Metal now is probably more varied lyrically then just about any other form of metal. Common elements remain such as the very distinct sound of vocals and guitar tone but lyrically now BM touches on everything from Middle-Eastern Gnosticism to Paganism to Viking mythology to the atrocities man commits unto man (see Salem). Of course you do still have Satanic and Anti-Theological lyrics however they are no more or less prevalent then any of the topics listed above or many other subjects for that matter. In that sense Christian Black Metal carries no negative connotations but is rather the simplest way of defining a band playing Black Metal with Christian lyrics and imagery.

Yeah I know that but when you mention Black Metal people think of Venom, and that is how BM started, Satanism, what i'm saying is although it has changed at its roots it was Anti-Christian/Religion or whatever.

[Scullicon]

I agree with Dave in this. Im not being stubborn about the facts of Black metal evolving and being adapted by many bands with many different standpoints and maybe even religious backgrounds. But to me the essence of Black Metal do not represent anything in the direction of christianity. So excuse me if im narrowminded about this. I wont change on this subject.

[RelentlessOblivion]

it's cool Scully, hey I'd wager $100 on all this religious bullshit being one big lie that you can't call them on 'cause when you finally have proof it's cause you've died and no fucking way you're coming back from that. no offence Iceni

[Iceni]

...Im not being stubborn about the facts of Black metal evolving and being adapted by many bands with many different standpoints and maybe even religious backgrounds. But to me the essence of Black Metal do not represent anything in the direction of christianity. So excuse me if im narrowminded about this. I wont change on this subject.

Well, you weren't trying to make half-baked jokes about its credibility without ever having listened to it. Also, you're not trying to make a case against unblack. I've no beef with your sentiment. Still, I recommend Slechtvalk to you, they craft perfectly good battle-oriented black/death metal kind of in the vein of Amon Amarth. sYI5bX8pA4A

...'cause when you finally have proof it's cause you've died and no fucking way you're coming back from that.

Well, at least you understand that dying is the only way to conclusively prove the metaphysical reality. The world wouldn't work properly otherwise.

[Scullicon]

Well, From metalfans here in Scandinavia ive meet, most thought it was a bad joke from the start. Shaking their heads. I mean, I live on one of the most secularized places on earth. Ill quote the wise Erik Danielsson from Watain on this matter. ''Once again Christianity had to use the Devil in order to spread their message''

[BlutAusNerd]

Yeah I know that but when you mention Black Metal people think of Venom' date=' and that is how BM started, Satanism, what i'm saying is although it has changed at its roots it was Anti-Christian/Religion or whatever.[/quote'] Venom did start black metal and did have satanic lyrics, but they also weren't serious about them. I see it as a bit of a fallacy to assume that it was created with that intention as opposed to that topic being taboo and sensational, but then that's what the black metal bands that followed them thought. It started as being over the top, and bands like Bathory and Sodom took it more seriously, but just about every first wave black metal band changed their lyrical stance away from satanism before long, so they must not have bought it either. Even many of the second wave black metal bands aren't satanists, using satan in the same way as the first wavers, as a symbol to tear down christianity in favor of something else (paganism, ritual magick, mysticism, etc...). It wasn't until the 3rd wave and the more orthodox black metal bands started popping up, espousing actual satanism and/or philosophical satanism as their beliefs, that black metal really got satanic (with some earlier exceptions, of course).

[Scullicon]

Venom did start black metal and did have satanic lyrics' date=' but they also weren't serious about them. I see it as a bit of a fallacy to assume that it was created with that intention as opposed to that topic being taboo and sensational, but then that's what the black metal bands that followed them thought. It started as being over the top, and bands like Bathory and Sodom took it more seriously, but just about every first wave black metal band changed their lyrical stance away from satanism before long, so they must not have bought it either. Even many of the second wave black metal bands aren't satanists, using satan in the same way as the first wavers, as a symbol to tear down christianity in favor of something else (paganism, ritual magick, mysticism, etc...). It wasn't until the 3rd wave and the more orthodox black metal bands started popping up, espousing actual satanism and/or philosophical satanism as their beliefs, that black metal really got satanic (with some earlier exceptions, of course).[/quote'] Well Venom planted the seed. And the devil have since been associated with the phenomena. That bands essentially took it up seriously was just a question of time.