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Christian Black Metal


Caedere

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: Christian Black Metal Unblack metal is a failed genre in my eyes. Black Metal is the music of Satan, it's supposed to be evil. How do you expect to be able to turn it around to be of God? I think the way it sounds cannot compliment Christian themes.

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Re: Christian Black Metal I fail to understand how people can be so ignorant when it comes to Christian metal. Of course metal can be Christian. That's just the lyrics. As can black metal. Yes, the lyrics in black metal were originally anti-Christian, but over time they have developed into focusing quite often on other stuff, like the seasons or folklore, amongst others. Black metal only refers to the compositional structure, and not so much the lyrics.

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Re: Christian Black Metal its like a church choir singing about Satan, its makes no sense!!! its just stupid and wrong! wether or not some of these bands have great music, Black metal is also about atmosphere........fuck1n christians always want a piece of everyones cake :x

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Re: Christian Black Metal

its like a church choir singing about Satan' date=' its makes no sense!!! its just stupid and wrong! wether or not some of these bands have great music, Black metal is also about atmosphere........fuck1n christians always want a piece of everyones cake :x[/quote'] So what you're saying is that just because Christians are Christians, they shouldn't be allowed to create the kind of music they want without being blasphemic?
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Re: Christian Black Metal

No not saying that at all, but Blackmetal is dark, against christian views etc. etc. What I do have an issue with is bands singing about christian beliefs using the old school black metal sound i.e. the sound of Burzum, Abruptum, ealry emperor etc. if they want to sing about what they believe in they should start there own sound. again its only what I think its kind of one of them arguments that never will be settled, so Ill leave it at that ;)
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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: Christian Black Metal All right, fine. I'm going to try to set the record straight, quoting as many of you as I think said vital things. First of all, beef said "even Christians hate Christian black metal?" Yeah, a lot of them do. A lot of them are obnoxious, stiff-necked legalists who don't think metal should be accepted in church. For that matter, there are denominations which don't even believe you should have any instruments save vocals. You get a lot of anal types in Christianity. Then Caedere: "I bet they made it up so more teens would go to church, lol." Well, let me tell you there is no church on EARTH where unblack is a regular part of the service. But as for outreach, it makes sense. I've met Catholics whose favorite bands are groups like Gorgoroth and even they note that it's ironic. So they like the sound, they'd just prefer not to pay people to proliferate anti-clerical music. Then Zyggiefromjiu: "hahahaha yeah lyrics are USUALLY important, but in the case of Christian metal just don't listen to the lyrics" Fair enough. There's a lot of trashy, idiotic stuff which gets promoted as 'Biblically based' when it's really just a rehash of all the other Christian music/literature out there. But honestly, some of the lyrics really are awesome, and not just as a Christian. For example, Essence of Sorrow sure seems to think a lot about death and hone in on the human emotions. 7days also has pretty good lyrics as do Darkwater (who are at ProgPower USA this year by the way) My Silent Wake also writes good, cynical, depressing doom lyrics (yes, I know they don't like to say they're Christian, but they are sympathetic to the theology). Now, granted, a lot of their lyrics are a lot easier to understand if you are Christian. Well, many of these bands bank on the fact that no one will read their lyrics, but when Christians read the lyrics they won't find anything hostile. Then several of you including khaos and MetalMaiden brought up the idea that black metal has an anti-Christian pedigree so it makes no sense for there to be Christian black metal. That's a fallacy of chronology - stating that the status quo is better because it's old. It's also a false dilemma if you fail to consider that just because it sucks now doesn't mean it shall always suck for all eternity. Then MetalMaiden remarked Christianity doesn't belong in any kind of metal. That's absolutely and unequivocally RUBBISH. I'm not trying to make an enemy of you, but I can't let that remark slide. Many of the themes metal music commonly uses, such as judgment day, hell, heaven, sin, temptation, anxiety about inner demons, demons themselves, corrupt governments, the foul nature of man, the transient nature of human life...all of these are vital elements of and themes within Christianity. Without Christianity we wouldn't have Symphony X's Paradise Lost, since that story is directly based on the Fall of Man. Then 916kaden stated multiple points about Ozzy Osbourne and Ronnie James Dio, and about how many Christians opposed Osbourne and Dio didn't care for nuns. These were pretty wimpy. I can't really speak for burning crosses since I don't know what statement Osbourne was trying to make. But Christianity is not its followers. I don't care what the nuns did, no Christian is a perfect representation of Christianity. Akuji's point wasn't bad, but there are darker themes in Christianity one can explore, which may well be suited to the darker black metal sound. AkselJ: THANK YOU. His line of thought sums up my thoughts well. Valfar: Yes. I want a piece of the metal cake. I got on this site because I like metal, especially metal I can relate to as a Christian. Christian bands want to spread Christian values, just like Fleshgod Apocalypse and The Faceless want to spread atheist/anti-clerical values. As for a church choir singing about Satan...I heard a story about one guy who used to be a Satanist, but then became Christian. He was surprised to hear a Johann Sebastian Bach arrangement in church because he'd heard the same thing at his cult meeting. Is Bach Christian or anti-Christian? Well, OK, you brought up the idea of a new sound. Not bad, it makes sense. After all, what's a band unless they bring something good to the table? Well, good news, there is. Ukrainian black metal band Holy Blood has gotten very good reviews from Encyclopaedia Metallum's reviewers, averaging about 98%. They are indeed original, bringing a Slavic folk sound mixed with black metal. So this discussion has come to a civil end, and that's good. I'm not a black metal fan myself, really. (apocalypse922's working to change that.) But why must I stand around and let polemical atheists poke fun at my theology and imply that I'm an immature, gormless sheep stuck in lockstep, while I can't say a word for fear of 'offending' someone or 'shoving something down someone's throat'? Heck no. Sorry if this seems like a rebuke, but I've got a quote to back me up here. Zyggiefromjiu: 'lots of Christian hate here...not looking good to Christian members'. I'm pleased to say I like this forum a lot. You know I do. I've applied for a Metal Forum t-shirt, which means I've got over 100 posts, which is a clear indication I've found lots to comment on. Complain about the music, fine. But this isn't a theological discussion. If you must complain about Christianity, make a 'religion' thread in "Deep and Meaningful". I'll be willing to hash this out with all of you there if you want.

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Re: Christian Black Metal An anti-religious, or pro-pagan lyrical theme works with the music and the vocals. When I first heard of Unblack metal, I was staunchly shocked, and I swear, if I hadn't been rolling with laughter, I might have been slightly offended. Either way, lyrics ARE important, but when it comes to Unblack metal, well... I try to tune them out, or just rebuild them with better lyrics, just so I don't feel like I'm going to hell... and since I don't believe in the place, that says quite a lot.

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Re: Christian Black Metal

This makes me happy, haha :D
Well, you brought some intellect and balance to the debate and you persuaded Valfar to alter his position, so I owe you for upholding an unpopular cause. :D
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Re: Christian Black Metal

Well, you brought some intellect and balance to the debate and you persuaded Valfar to alter his position, so I owe you for upholding an unpopular cause. :D
That's a big achievement in three sentences. :P And of course I upheld this case, you see, I'm a Christian as well, in case you haven't noticed. :D
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Re: Christian Black Metal

That's a big achievement in three sentences. :P And of course I upheld this case, you see, I'm a Christian as well, in case you haven't noticed. :D
:shock: WHOOOO! HEART PALPITATIONS! Ah almost choked on mah carrots. No, I hadn't noticed...I'd guessed you were Unitarian or agnostic like Akuji and you just wanted to be fair. Good grief, I've waited AGES to meet someone of your ilk.
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Re: Christian Black Metal

:shock: WHOOOO! HEART PALPITATIONS! Ah almost choked on mah carrots. No, I hadn't noticed...I'd guessed you were Unitarian or agnostic like Akuji and you just wanted to be fair. Good grief, I've waited AGES to meet someone of your ilk.
Ahahaaa :P If you'd looked at the charts in my signature, you could've noticed Stryper and Petra, you know ;) Also, what do you mean by my ilk? Could you clarify?
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Re: Christian Black Metal

Then MetalMaiden remarked Christianity doesn't belong in any kind of metal. That's absolutely and unequivocally RUBBISH. I'm not trying to make an enemy of you, but I can't let that remark slide. Many of the themes metal music commonly uses, such as judgment day, hell, heaven, sin, temptation, anxiety about inner demons, demons themselves, corrupt governments, the foul nature of man, the transient nature of human life...all of these are vital elements of and themes within Christianity. Without Christianity we wouldn't have Symphony X's Paradise Lost, since that story is directly based on the Fall of Man.
I probably should have worded that better, heh. I didn't exactly mean that Christian elements shouldn't belong in metal, I suppose I simply meant that positive Christian messages shouldn't belong in metal. Keep in mind that this is completely based off of my personal opinion. I am not a fan of the Christian religion, since I disagree with many of its teachings and whatnot. Therefore I do not appreciate any kind of music that sings about it in a positive manner. (Although I will admit that not all 'Christian' bands sing about it in a positive way.) But yeah, I'm just weird and have a problem with Christianity in general. So I apologize for that. ... And I'm not hateful against Christians or Christian music, by the way. People can believe or listen to anything they want. I don't judge. I also appreciate your post, sir. That was probably the longest post ever made on the forum, and you actually backed it up with some pretty strong points. Nice work.
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Re: Christian Black Metal

I probably should have worded that better, heh. I didn't exactly mean that Christian elements shouldn't belong in metal, I suppose I simply meant that positive Christian messages shouldn't belong in metal. Keep in mind that this is completely based off of my personal opinion. I am not a fan of the Christian religion, since I disagree with many of its teachings and whatnot. Therefore I do not appreciate any kind of music that sings about it in a positive manner. (Although I will admit that not all 'Christian' bands sing about it in a positive way.) But yeah, I'm just weird and have a problem with Christianity in general. So I apologize for that. ... And I'm not hateful against Christians or Christian music, by the way. People can believe or listen to anything they want. I don't judge. I also appreciate your post, sir. That was probably the longest post ever made on the forum, and you actually backed it up with some pretty strong points. Nice work.
Thank you very much. I'm not much of a disciple if I can't cogently defend my own theology. In the meantime, what exactly are your problems? I realize this isn't related to the the thread - maybe I ought to make a theological thread in the 'Off Topic' section. I want to find out whether your opposition is to Scripture itself or just generations of crooked priests, myopic pastors and stupid parishioners in your life. I'll admit, if I had to judge by adherents alone, I'd probably be a very bitter agnostic. I've been lied to and treated like a pet rather than a person by many people and it annoyed me witless. But obviously you do judge. You've made your judgment already; if you hadn't judged you wouldn't have any opinion. As for avoiding any kind of Christian message, that's pretty darn hard. If you want to avoid speaking positively about any element of Christianity I think even John Dewey would admit you're on morally unstable ground, especially since other theologies commonly share principles with Christianity. Then again, you did also say that you objected to parts, not the whole. Perhaps there are only certain themes you don't like. IF, however, you don't like OVERT Christian themes, I can sympathize...a bit of subtlety is useful if you want to draw in an audience. That's why I've tried to roll with the punches and figure things out here instead of quoting Scripture and stating the Apostle's Creed over and over.
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