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Christian Black Metal


Caedere

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Well, I've explored the genre a lot more and I have discovered some brilliant material. Maybe I will give the BAN format a try. Ebak_lTbW3Y&list=PL47F607268A9CE7EE This Ukrainian band only has one album out and I only like half of it, but that may well just be my taste. However, this song is fairly emblematic of their style, in that it combines the raw(?) style of the vocals with a sense for melody. J1VoBaAnb_I The first song I heard from these Armenian guys was 'Messiah' from their first album, and that might have raised by expectations a bit. I'm still researching their material, but they have a pretty varied style that covers a lot of elements over the course of a single song. KnuRo970h2U Dissonance is not often used by Christian bands. The fondness among my brethren for light melody has sometimes had a crippling influence in the myriad attempts to compete with other groups who are doing darker, more discordant, more interestingly rhythmic and generally more interesting stuff. The Norwegians of Drottnar say screw that, taking strong influences from Akercocke and Ulcerate.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Well' date=' you weren't trying to make half-baked jokes about its credibility without ever having listened to it. Also, you're not trying to make a case against unblack. I've no beef with your sentiment. Still, I recommend Slechtvalk to you, they craft perfectly good battle-oriented black/death metal kind of in the vein of Amon Amarth.[/quote'] Wow, that's a good song. I'll check them out.
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They sounded pretty good' date=' reminded me of mid-period Satyricon and newer Dodheimsgard.[/quote'] Well, it reminded me a bit more of Akercocke or Voices. Still, I really liked it, the dissonant riffs very much appealed to me. As I understand, Drottnar do more politically themed songs right now, but their album Welterwerk was more on Christian themes. Once again, I think you for re-introducing me to Extol. Loving their stuff, and I ordered a shirt for them. Another really good underrated band is Grave Declaration, kind of a blackened doom band last I remember.
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Christian Black Metal, there's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. That's like saying look at that giant midget. Iceni made some very logical points, but I for one would not stray from Black Metal's roots and tradition...and that has always been anti christian. I think any purist would agree, it just doesn't work, and in my lifetime, it'll never earn the respect it feels it is entitled to.

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Christian Black Metal, there's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. That's like saying look at that giant midget. Iceni made some very logical points, but I for one would not stray from Black Metal's roots and tradition...and that has always been anti christian. I think any purist would agree, it just doesn't work, and in my lifetime, it'll never earn the respect it feels it is entitled to.

The problem with that logic is that the band that started black metal, Venom, weren't serious about their satanic themes, and almost every band that followed directly after them in the first wave of black metal fell away from satanic lyrics pretty quickly as well. The only one that remained serious was King Diamond, and his doing so was at the root of Mercyful Fate's initial break up.

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All that is true, let me clarify what I meant as my comment doesn't hold water. By "roots and traditions" I meant the first wave,and not necessarily just satanic lyrics or beliefs. I meant as a collective whole, it is my opinion,that in the BM community, christian black metal is insurmountably frowned upon by the majority. 

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But you can still create a sinister atmosphere, sound evil, and maintain Christian sentiment. The Old Testament and Revelations are particularly conducive to such sounds. Many of the bands that started playing black metal also moved away from it because the sound is often restrictive. Bathory, Mayhem to some extent, and Darkthrone are good examples of this. Having said that Darkthrone's change is not for the better.

 

If it sounds like BM it is BM regardless of lyrical content. Let us not forget Pagan Black Metal is a microgenre as well.

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All that is true, let me clarify what I meant as my comment doesn't hold water. By "roots and traditions" I meant the first wave,and not necessarily just satanic lyrics or beliefs. I meant as a collective whole, it is my opinion,that in the BM community, christian black metal is insurmountably frowned upon by the majority. 

I'm not arguing that, and I think it wouldn't get quite as much shit from the black metal community at large if it wasn't almost universally bad in terms of music. I don't think that Christian black metal can't be good or can't be true black metal, but I have yet to find any Christian black metal artists that can contend with the best bands of the genre.

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23 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

But you can still create a sinister atmosphere, sound evil, and maintain Christian sentiment. The Old Testament and Revelations are particularly conducive to such sounds. Many of the bands that started playing black metal also moved away from it because the sound is often restrictive. Bathory, Mayhem to some extent, and Darkthrone are good examples of this. Having said that Darkthrone's change is not for the better.

 

If it sounds like BM it is BM regardless of lyrical content. Let us not forget Pagan Black Metal is a microgenre as well.

Absolutely, CBM bands can recreate the Black Metal sound, but for me it's not as authentic. In the sense that they encompass the struggle between good and evil, and will always choose the path of god due to their convictions. As opposed to most BM bands that embrace darkness, negativity,and or evil whether or not they are agnostic, atheist,pagan,etc. Just as NSBM or Dsbm is categorized,christian black metal to me is just that, christian black metal. 

20 hours ago, BlutAusNerd said:

I'm not arguing that, and I think it wouldn't get quite as much shit from the black metal community at large if it wasn't almost universally bad in terms of music. I don't think that Christian black metal can't be good or can't be true black metal, but I have yet to find any Christian black metal artists that can contend with the best bands of the genre.

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Don't get me wrong, I don't think it shouldn't exist, or can't co exist, Antestor musically is not bad. If I may though, Christians playing Black Metal is like Mexicans dressing up like the Norse and reenacting a Viking ship funeral, or like Irish men draped in full Aztec gear reenacting a sacrificial offering to the sun god. It's just not the same. ;)

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I think perhaps that sentiment exists because by and large Christian BM bands don't execute the sound well. Nothing to do with subject matter but rather the bands not producing quality music. It's similar to the stigma surrounding metalcore because people tend to associate it with killswitch engage and trivium rather then Converge and Repulsion.

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23 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said: But you can still create a sinister atmosphere, sound evil, and maintain Christian sentiment. The Old Testament and Revelations are particularly conducive to such sounds. Many of the bands that started playing black metal also moved away from it because the sound is often restrictive. Bathory, Mayhem to some extent, and Darkthrone are good examples of this. Having said that Darkthrone's change is not for the better.

 

If it sounds like BM it is BM regardless of lyrical content. Let us not forget Pagan Black Metal is a microgenre as well.

Absolutely, CBM bands can recreate the Black Metal sound, but for me it's not as authentic. In the sense that they encompass the struggle between good and evil, and will always choose the path of god due to their convictions. As opposed to most BM bands that embrace darkness, negativity,and or evil whether or not they are agnostic, atheist,pagan,etc. Just as NSBM or Dsbm is categorized,christian black metal to me is just that, christian black metal. 

20 hours ago, BlutAusNerd said: I'm not arguing that, and I think it wouldn't get quite as much shit from the black metal community at large if it wasn't almost universally bad in terms of music. I don't think that Christian black metal can't be good or can't be true black metal, but I have yet to find any Christian black metal artists that can contend with the best bands of the genre.

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Don't get me wrong, I don't think it shouldn't exist, or can't co exist, Antestor musically is not bad. If I may though, Christians playing Black Metal is like Mexicans dressing up like the Norse and reenacting a Viking ship funeral, or like Irish men draped in full Aztec gear reenacting a sacrificial offering to the sun god. It's just not the same. [emoji6]

With the exception that again, black metal is a genre of music, not a lyrical theme. The dark sound it produces is what it thrives on, so if that darkness could be created by a Christian band, the lyrics wouldn't matter. There is just as much dark subject matter to observe in the world and draw inspiration from regardless of religion, but I do doubt that you could work that inspiration in if you're just trying to make distorted praise and worship music. It hasn't been done yet, not as far as I know, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done.

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Sooner or later a band will pull off exactly that BAN. We've seen it happen in other sub-genres after all. Trouble's first four albums are among the heaviest doom metal albums out there for example. Paramaecium also incorporate a great deal of Christian sentiment into their blend of gothic doom/death. Orphaned Land use their progressive folk metal sound to promote harmony and kinship between the Abrahimic religions.

 

Ultimately it comes back to the music. If that isn't up to scratch your lyrical content is irrelevant.

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Sooner or later a band will pull off exactly that BAN. We've seen it happen in other sub-genres after all. Trouble's first four albums are among the heaviest doom metal albums out there for example. Paramaecium also incorporate a great deal of Christian sentiment into their blend of gothic doom/death. Orphaned Land use their progressive folk metal sound to promote harmony and kinship between the Abrahimic religions.

 

Ultimately it comes back to the music. If that isn't up to scratch your lyrical content is irrelevant.

Don't forget Incubus for marauding death/thrash, their albums are intense.

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3 minutes ago, BlutAusNerd said: Your loss.

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Not really. Dude can say what he wants about how those bad atheists are just trying to drag believers to hell, but I don't feel any desire to subject myself to it. Might be easier to ignore in a foreign language.

Yeah, I guess murder, necrophilia, and butchering infants are perfectly acceptable topics, but a negative view of atheism crosses the line.

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3 minutes ago, BlutAusNerd said:

Yeah, I guess murder, necrophilia, and butchering infants are perfectly acceptable topics, but a negative view of atheism crosses the line.

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Wrong, I never said it was an unacceptable topic, I just don't want to listen to it. In much the same way as I imagine Iceni wouldn't get down with "Kill The Christian". The line isn't drawn over how extreme the topic is, it's at least in part over how seriously they take their content and how much I care about the issue. You've been pretty consistent about coming down on the side of musical quality regardless of lyrical content. I've always said that I don't enjoy proselytizing Christian lyrics. I don't even mind religious content, e.g. Type O Negative's last album or the many hours of sacred choral music that I enjoy. Can't help it if some songs rub me the wrong way.

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3 minutes ago, BlutAusNerd said: Yeah, I guess murder, necrophilia, and butchering infants are perfectly acceptable topics, but a negative view of atheism crosses the line.

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Wrong, I never said it was an unacceptable topic, I just don't want to listen to it. In much the same way as I imagine Iceni wouldn't get down with "Kill The Christian". The line isn't drawn over how extreme the topic is, it's at least in part over how seriously they take their content and how much I care about the issue. You've been pretty consistent about coming down on the side of musical quality regardless of lyrical content. I've always said that I don't enjoy proselytizing Christian lyrics. I don't even mind religious content, e.g. Type O Negative's last album or the many hours of sacred choral music that I enjoy. Can't help it if some songs rub me the wrong way.

It's just always struck me as hypocritical that preachy Satanism is perfectly acceptable to even non-satanist metal fans, but any degree of Christian influence in the lyrics of any given band amounts in dismissal and derision, or at the very least, a caveat of "they're pretty good for Christians I guess". Not saying that this is directly where you're going here, but the religious nature of the Satanism portrayed in the lyrics of bands that you play like Dissection and Deathspell Omega seem a whole lot more heavy handed to me than the likes of Incubus or Paramæcium. For an anti-religious person, it seems hypocritical that blunt lyrics of one religion are more acceptable than others.

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