Jump to content

Did the appearance and media breakthrough of Master of Puppets in Stranger Things upset you?


AdamGavriely

Did the appearance and media breakthrough of Master of Puppets in Stranger Things upset you?  

8 members have voted

  1. 1. How were you feeling when watching the Master of Puppets scene for the first time?

    • I was super excited
    • I was glad
    • It was okay, I guess...
    • Ehhh, didn't like it
      0
    • It was horrible
      0
  2. 2. How do you feel about its breakthrough into the media and mainstream?

    • I'm happy more people discover metal because of it
    • I'm happy it finally gets the appreciation it deserves
    • I don't care / don't have an opinion about it
    • I'm angry at people who don't really like the song for what it is but only for appearing in some popular TV show
    • I'm upset that it became a lot more mainstream that it used to be. Thrash metal should stay in the underground and only for people who can really appreciate it.
  3. 3. If someone will hear Master of Puppets and will say "Ooh, It's that song from Stranger Things!" how will you react?

    • I'll say "Yeah! It's really good, right?"
    • I'll say "It's actually a Metallica song"
    • I'll yell at them with my jet-black eyes "NO!!! YOU'RE NOT A REAL METALHEAD!!! IT'S OURS!!!!!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO LISTEN TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
      0
    • I'll pretend like I didn't hear them and will walk away as fast as I can


Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Sheol said:

I for one think it's great that more people discover metal, Metallica, or just a new song they like. Why not?

This is always the mistake every subculture makes at the start. The idea of the more the merrier, because everyone always assumes that everyone else is coming in with the same general appreciation for the subculture and how it exists. The problem with media attention is that it often brings large influxes of people who don't care about the subculture they're moving into. Then the next thing you know, you've got a bunch of perpetually online goon-beards whining about how black metal needs to be "safer" or some stupid shit like that.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, SurgicalBrute said:

This is always the mistake every subculture makes at the start. The idea of the more the merrier, because everyone always assumes that everyone else is coming in with the same general appreciation for the subculture and how it exists. The problem with media attention is that it often brings large influxes of people who don't care about the subculture they're moving into. Then the next thing you know, you've got a bunch of perpetually online goon-beards whining about how black metal needs to be "safer" or some stupid shit like that.

 

I don't see that it matters if sub-cultures get diluted. That is up to the individual if they allow it to happen to them. "Culture" is for the most part dumb anyway. I like metal for the music and how it makes me feel. I don't care for the peripheral trimmings like what people wear, how many tattoos they have, beer they can drink or whether they skateboard or not.

Which goon-beard has whined about black metal needing to be safer? If someone's blog said that, then don't read the blog. The black metal bands certainly don't care, nor will they be changing their approach for a goon-beard.

To the original topic, it was mildly amusing that Master of Puppets was in Stranger Things and I caught my daughter listening to it again afterwards, despite her normally hating it. But MoP wasn't there randomly for some kind of street cred. The character playing the song was a DnD playing metalhead - which is exactly what me and my friends were in 1986* too. 

*just. Maybe 1988 - 1992 in reality. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

I remember when it aired in the first place....I don't think there was any advanced notice. Everyone at my high school watched Married with Children and Anthrax was quite popular too. In that same year they toured AU/NZ. It was my first big gig.

 

Because we only had 4 TV channels here when MCW was breaking we didn't get it anywhere near the same time it was aired in the US. But I did work on the Aussie leg of that tour, it was one of my last big metal bands.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, markm said:

Off topic, but not really, I've been relistening and reevaluating my Boris collection after their 30th anniversary with 3 releases in 2022. In my mind they are the best heavy rock band that is not exactly metal but sometimes metal in the 2000's and yet, I'll bet out of experimental and metal circles and maybe some hipsters the vast majority of rock fans haven't ever heard of them.... 

Hey Mark, I was just thinking about you in the car, wondering where the hell you've been. Was considering reaching out via text but I didn't want to disturb you. Not to be a mother hen, it's just that I know you like to go off kayaking and just wanted to make sure you're ok and hadn't hit your head on a rock doing a barrel roll and died or landed your old ass in the hospital or something. So good, now you've shown your face and I can stop worrying. FA and Navy haven't posted in a month and if we lost you too then who'd be left? I'd be totally outnumbered by all these wacked-out Aussie blokes.

Anyway, I've been meaning to ask you where to start with Boris. My problem is I mix them up with Sunn-O)) in my mind because they're both Japanese. Boris isn't all ambient and weird with songs comprised entirey of amp feedback like Sunn are they? Do they maybe have some albums that are more experimental and other albums of more "normal" music? If they have any normal abums give me a title or two to get me started. I don't care if it's metal or heavy rock just as long as it's songs and not ambient or experimental weirdness. I know I checked out Pink on Youtube one time but I've completely forgotten what they sounded like.

 

7 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Just to be contrarian, Slipknot is a huge gimmick but it is quite heavy. It blended more extreme forms of metal with studio trickery and DJ beeps and whistles. Myself and those around me in mid-90s had Korn, Slipknot and even Limp Bizkit albums and went to those gigs (anyone remember when Limp Bizkit headlined Big Day Out?) at the same time as worshipping at the alter of death (the whole genre, not just the one band). 

Now, I don't think any of that nu-metal stuff has aged well and it wasn't particularly good to start with, but it gave a new lease of life to the genre and can act as a gateway to other things. I'm not embarrassed that I listened to that stuff and didn't hate it. But we did grow apart. 

Since my tastes and what comprised "classic" bands had already been solidified by 1990, nu-metal wasn't going to supplant any of that, but I know plenty of people a few years younger than me that think Linkin Park is amazing and established their benchmark for what the heavy genre is.*

Just as I was born in a relatively stable period in history and enjoyed a care-free upbringing; and won't experience the full force of living in a collapsing hellscape until my twilight years; it's all luck of the draw.

*recently I was having a drink with a drummer I use for session work. He can do all the extreme blast stuff and is super awesome....and it came out in conversation his favourite band is Limp Bizkit. I almost choked.  I did think less of him, but that says more about me than him.

Pointing out that Slipknot is "quite heavy" is contrarian how? It's commercial nonsense, what's the difference how heavy it is? It's not like you can form any kind of correlation between any given band's level of heaviness and increased/decreased quality. Shit can be heavy and still suck because it's too commercial. We've had bands who were "quite heavy" but still sucked for 30+ years now. Look at deathcore, it's quite heavy and br00tal as fuck, but like nu-metal most serious metalheads don't want to fuck with it because we see it as "core" and therefore inferior. We see it as a joke not to be taken seriously. I don't want to get into a big debate about Slipknot or Limp Bizkunt specifically, I really don't care who happens to like any of those nu-metal bands, and I don't believe anyone needs to be embarrassed for liking some of that stuff or anything, to each his own, whatever kinds of music others may enjoy doesn't confront me. I was really just wondering how you saw that statement as "contrarian."

I also take issue with your statement about nu-metal giving "the genre" (I'm assuming you mean metal here?) a new lease on life or even a shot in the arm as they say. I do agree it certainly acted as a gateway into better things for a lot of people of a certain age in the late 90's early 2k's. But I'm saying metal in general would have done just fine with our without the existence of nu-metal. The one thing has nothing to do with the other. There have been plenty of other gateways both before and since the thankfully short-lived nu-metal craze that could easily bring one face to face with metal without taking them through clown-world garbage like Korn, Balloon-knot or Bizkunt. The idea that real metal would have fizzled out and died without nu-metal propping it up and funneling new fans into the genre, or without any one major metal band of that era be it Pantera (I've heard that one 1,000 times how they single-handedly "saved" metal in the 90's) or Machine Head or Tool or Deftones or SoaD or Rage or Fear Factory or whomever is ludicrous. Even as a relatively small niche genre, metal is too widely loved and too deeply entrenched in our western culture to fail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

I don't see that it matters if sub-cultures get diluted. That is up to the individual if they allow it to happen to them. "Culture" is for the most part dumb anyway. I like metal for the music and how it makes me feel. I don't care for the peripheral trimmings like what people wear, how many tattoos they have, beer they can drink or whether they skateboard or not.

Which goon-beard has whined about black metal needing to be safer? If someone's blog said that, then don't read the blog. The black metal bands certainly don't care, nor will they be changing their approach for a goon-beard.

To the original topic, it was mildly amusing that Master of Puppets was in Stranger Things and I caught my daughter listening to it again afterwards, despite her normally hating it. But MoP wasn't there randomly for some kind of street cred. The character playing the song was a DnD playing metalhead - which is exactly what me and my friends were in 1986* too. 

*just. Maybe 1988 - 1992 in reality. 

Ok while I'm still here on this thread I guess I'll have to quote you once again Jon, just to say that while I mostly agree with you here, (at least in theory, because I don't think dilution is a real probem either) I think Surge being a big black metal guy is more sensitive to the issue of 'cancel culture' and how black metal having a higher profile might affect him and the availability of the music he loves and the feasibility of European black metal bands being able to come over and play live shows for us Yanks in the future. We get so few coming over as it is.

No one is out there seriously trying to "cancel" the doom metal and other more mainstream types of metal that you love Jon, or trying to influence the world to see it as dangerous and subversive and taboo and unacceptable. But there does seem to be a small but growing army of SJW bloggers out there (goon-beards?) writing all sorts of uninformed horse shit about how terrible and fascist all black metal is and how they would like to see the entire sub-genre die a horrible death. When in doubt, just assume they're all racists seems to be the general attitude. Black metal shows and even entire US tours have literally been cancelled when scared promoters have succumbed to this kind of SJW pressure. It's not like if Surge and I don't read the offending blogs that those activist SJW's just magically go away.

And for the record my issue is with disingenuous/sanctimonious keyboard warriors, and the preservation of a form of art that I happen to really love. I'm still a liberal lefty, I'm not against 'social justice' in general. Just don't think black metal is this big terrible societal problem they're trying to make it out to be. Black metal bands who are actual Nazi racists probably make up less than one percent of total number of active black metal bands. (alright, I totally pulled that number out of my ass) Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here is all we're saying. 

I'm clearly not nearly as worried about all this stuff as Surge is, but think I I get where he's coming from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Anyway, I've been meaning to ask you where to start with Boris. My problem is I mix them up with Sunn-O)) in my mind because they're both Japanese

Mark and I will have to tag team this one too. Sunn-O))) are not Japanese. As to where to start with Boris, I think Mark has more of their albums than me so, over to him...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Mark and I will have to tag team this one too. Sunn-O))) are not Japanese.

As to where to start with Boris, I think Mark has more of their albums than me so, over to him...

Alright Seattle then. I was close. Seattle's right on the way to Japan from here.

I guess I get these 2 bands confused because Mark has mentioned both of them quite a few times and they both have some connection with drone and noise rock. Not sure how I became convinced that Sunnoco was from Japan. I'll normally check if I'm not sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, give me a couple/few days and I'll do a write-up. I think some of us gorge on new releases late in the year and then take a vaca from new metal in the new year. I haven't been posting just because, I've mostly been digesting all the stuff I bought from November-January. But all is well on my end. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

10 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Pointing out that Slipknot is "quite heavy" is contrarian how?

I also take issue with your statement about nu-metal giving "the genre" (I'm assuming you mean metal here?) a new lease on life or even a shot in the arm as they say. I do agree it certainly acted as a gateway into better things for a lot of people of a certain age in the late 90's early 2k's. But I'm saying metal in general would have done just fine with our without the existence of nu-metal. The one thing has nothing to do with the other. There have been plenty of other gateways both before and since the thankfully short-lived nu-metal craze that could easily bring one face to face with metal without taking them through clown-world garbage like Korn, Balloon-knot or Bizkunt. The idea that real metal would have fizzled out and died without nu-metal propping it up and funneling new fans into the genre, or without any one major metal band of that era be it Pantera (I've heard that one 1,000 times how they single-handedly "saved" metal in the 90's) or Machine Head or Tool or Deftones or SoaD or Rage or Fear Factory or whomever is ludicrous. Even as a relatively small niche genre, metal is too widely loved and too deeply entrenched in our western culture to fail.

I meant contrarian merely in the sense that you said all true metalheads thought nu-metal sucks and I was there to say that me and all my friends at the time who skived off school to listen to Slayer didn't hate nu-metal when it appeared. We didn't all jump ship and start wearing backwards baseball caps either (actually, y'know I think I did turn my baseball cap around once or twice, I am so sorry and regret it now). We just had an open mind. The heyday of nu-metal passed and we all moved on but no one I knew was rabidly anti-nu.

Also, I agree that nu-metal didn't save metal. It wasn't going anywhere with or without it. But, it raised awareness of heavy music, for good or bad. Same with Pantera. 

It also wasn't short lived. All the band names we are kicking around still exist and seem to be doing ok. 

But I do like the encapsulating statement: "even as a relatively small niche genre, metal is too widely loved and too deeply entrenched in our western culture to fail"

True dat.

While at one point nu-metal definitely violated me, I don't remember that time with any contempt.

9 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Ok while I'm still here on this thread I guess I'll have to quote you once again Jon, just to say that while I mostly agree with you here, (at least in theory, because I don't think dilution is a real probem either) I think Surge being a big black metal guy is more sensitive to the issue of 'cancel culture' and how black metal having a higher profile might affect him and the availability of the music he loves and the feasibility of European black metal bands being able to come over and play live shows for us Yanks in the future. We get so few coming over as it is.

I'm clearly not nearly as worried about all this stuff as Surge is, but think I I get where he's coming from.

That is fair enough. It could affect gigs if libtards be protestin' and that is a real enough concern, but it is unlikely to affect availability of the music though. The internet is just too big.

I suppose theoretically Bandcamp (or Spotify for those craven enough to use it) could shut down a band that gets enough complaints. But, if the material is in fact a step too far in terms of artistic expression, then they are a privately owned platform and they can do what they want to police it.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, markm said:

Yes, give me a couple/few days and I'll do a write-up. I think some of us gorge on new releases late in the year and then take a vaca from new metal in the new year. I haven't been posting just because, I've mostly been digesting all the stuff I bought from November-January. But all is well on my end. 

Plus one for interest in Boris. I've never heard a single note.

I have heard Sunn O))) and knew they weren't from Japan. I saw them live once. It is an experience I do not care to repeat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I enjoy Sunn O)) recordings but I have no desire to see them live. To static and too loud live I should think.

That is one way of putting it. It was fuck off loud. Two dicks in hooded robes playing slow riffs on Les Pauls in a shitty basement. Rarely do I leave gigs early, but I didn't want to miss the last tube. That is how obnoxious they were. Drone going over time (because, y'know you can't finish that aimless drone a bit early). It wasn't like waiting for Angel of Death as an encore.

The bouncer at the door looked positively pained.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

The heyday of nu-metal passed and we all moved on but no one I knew was rabidly anti-nu.

It also wasn't short lived. All the band names we are kicking around still exist and seem to be doing ok. 

Alright Mr Backwards Cap, when I said the nu-metal "craze" was short-lived, I meant the hey-day passed. Not as many new bands being formed in that nu space past a certain date. I understand many of those bands still exist and some of them have been and remain extraordinarily successful. No music genre ever really dies, sales wane, their waves of popuarity just run their courses and their hey-days end. You scrotes turn your ball caps back the right way 'round, put on your big boy pants and go on with your middle class plant-based lives, wife, kid, hybrid in the garage.

And when I said "most serious metalheads" didn't fuck around with nu-metal, I wasn't talking about young impressionable ball cap wearing teens and angsty testosterone fueled 20-something dudes like yourself who were nu-metal's main target audience and the ones making it into a big thing. I meant older guys like me who had been card-carrying metalheads for 20 years by the time Korn blew up in '98.

I was ony vaguely aware of nu-metal's existence around that time, I didn't even know it was called nu-metal or know any of the bands' names or anything til some years later. I had just noticed there were some horrible baggy-pantsed rap-rock bands popping up at the tail end of the decade that I must've seen on MTV and I remember hearing that Bizkunt song Rollin' at the titty bar after work a few times on a Friday night. And then suddenly these kinds of bands were getting airtime on the "alternative" rock radio stations that had previously been playing grunge n stuff.

Fortunately the nu trend blew over at some point, but I wonder if when those angsty teens and young 20-somethings from Y2K have kids of their own one day, and if they'll discover their parents' record collections, could nu-metal possibly see a resurgence? God for-fucking-bid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Alright Mr Backwards Cap, when I said the nu-metal "craze" was short-lived, I meant the hey-day passed. Not as many new bands being formed in that nu space past a certain date. I understand many of those bands still exist and some of them have been and remain extraordinarily successful. No music genre ever really dies, sales wane, their waves of popuarity just run their courses and their hey-days end. You scrotes turn your ball caps back the right way 'round, put on your big boy pants and go on with your middle class plant-based lives, wife, kid, hybrid in the garage.

And when I said "most serious metalheads" didn't fuck around with nu-metal, I wasn't talking about young impressionable ball cap wearing teens and angsty testosterone fueled 20-something dudes like yourself who were nu-metal's main target audience and the ones making it a thing. I meant older guys like me who had been card-carrying metalheads for 20 years by the time Korn blew up in '98.

I was ony vaguely aware of nu-metal's existence around that time, I didn't even know it was called nu-metal or know any of the bands' names or anything til some years later. I had just noticed there were some horrible baggy-pantsed rap-rock bands popping up at the tail end of the decade that I must've seen on MTV and I remember hearing that Bizkunt song Rollin' at the titty bar after work a few times on a Friday night. And then suddenly these kinds of bands were getting airtime on the "alternative" rock radio stations that had previously been playing grunge n stuff.

Fortunately the nu trend blew over at some point, but I wonder if when those angsty teens and young 20-somethings from Y2K have kids of their own one day, and if they'll discover their parents' record collections, could nu-metal possibly see a resurgence? God for-fucking-bid.

Where does open-minded end and impressionable begin?

My music tastes had been solidified prior to advent of nu-metal (which makes me somewhat closed-minded I guess). While not a 20 year veteran, we'd been pretty entrenched for 10 years already. This included trad metal, death and some black metal by mid-nineties. However, if you were interested in current metal at all in 1995, you couldn't help but have come across Korn and nu-metal. It had infected Sepultura by '96. Korn was everywhere well before 1998. I remember buying the second album on the day it came out in 1996. And I lived in a backwater with no MTV.

We can agree this was not a high water mark for music. My whole point here is that the passionate hatred for nu-metal seems to be revisionist and trendy.  At the time I didn't know anyone that cared and I knew some metalheads that were older. We might have debated....yeah, I'm not sure about that one. I generally don't like rap...which was my line in the sand. Unless it was for comedic purposes. For my sins the first Anthrax song I heard was I'm the Man, so I thought they were a comedy rap band.

I wonder what a resurgence would even look like. I didn't know kids were interested in their parent's music. My dad (from Yorkshire) likes Country and The Beatles. My mum doesn't like The Beatles (because they did drugs and were very naughty and anti-Christian), so all I was left with to buy every Christmas was a Cliff Richard album. Luckily he released one practically every Christmas.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Where does open-minded end and impressionable begin?

My music tastes had been solidified prior to advent of nu-metal (which makes me somewhat closed-minded I guess). While not a 20 year veteran, we'd been pretty entrenched for 10 years already. This included trad metal, death and some black metal by mid-nineties. However, if you were interested in current metal at all in 1995, you couldn't help but have come across Korn and nu-metal. It had infected Sepultura by '96. Korn was everywhere well before 1998. I remember buying the second album on the day it came out in 1996. And I lived in a backwater with no MTV.

We can agree this was not a high water mark for music. My whole point here is that the passionate hatred for nu-metal seems to be revisionist and trendy.  At the time I didn't know anyone that cared and I knew some metalheads that were older. We might have debated....yeah, I'm not sure about that one. I generally don't like rap...which was my line in the sand. Unless it was for comedic purposes. For my sins the first Anthrax song I heard was I'm the Man, so I thought they were a comedy rap band.

I wonder what a resurgence would even look like. I didn't know kids were interested in their parent's music. My dad (from Yorkshire) likes Country and The Beatles. My mum doesn't like The Beatles (because they did drugs and were very naughty and anti-Christian), so all I was left with to buy every Christmas was a Cliff Richard album. Luckily he released one practically every Christmas.

Interesting hypothesis Jon, but no, I never had to deal with Korn. I was quite interested in current metal in the mid 90's obviously, but I don't know maybe it depends what you mean by "come across" Korn. I'm sure I must have heard a few songs of theirs on the radio in the mid-late 90's as I drove around NYC in my truck without knowing who sang all those songs on the radio as they didn't always say, and even if they did I was in and out of the truck a lot so usually missed it. I didn't listen to the radio at any other time except in the work truck, any other time either at home or in my own car I'd have been listening to my own purchased music.

The 1990's was a strange and difficult time for me musically speaking though, because that's when real metal went underground and nobody had even thought to tell me! I'd had a kid in June of 1990 and was working two jobs for awhile there, so going to the city at night for metal shows had all but stopped for a bit. And they stopped releasing a lot of things on vinyl around '91-'92, trying to promote CD buying I guess, so record store trips were getting fewer and fewer as I was quite resistant to switching over to CD's, and in fact I didn't buy my first cd until 2004. No internet yet in the eraly 90's so I was limited insofar as resources to find out about new music. I had the radio, MTV and music mags that I got from the book store. So for the first part of that decade I was still heavily rocking out with my 70's & 80's record collection I had accumulated which was quite thrash heavy by 1990 and also included plenty of speed metal, crossover, nwobhm and other 80's heavy metal and punk bands, Fate, Candlemass, Circus of Power, The Cult, Sisters of Mercy, lots of different things I was into then besides just thrash, but all of it was metal or metal related, hard rock or the heavier end of punk.

Staying with bands I already knew and trusted as they released new stuff was one fairly reliable way I found new stuff to buy in the 90's, album reviews in magazines and random grabs at the record store were my other methods. I found Paradise Lost that way in '92, just saw their Shades of God album in the store knowing absolutely nothing about them and randomly took a chance on it. As it turned out that album Shades of God and the following year's Icon became my personal soundtrack to the 90's. I played those two albums over and over again incessantly. I'd chucked them on either side of a 90 minute Maxelll tape and just played the shit outta that thing on repeat thousands of times in my car until it wore out and then I'd make another one. I was also still heavily into Overkill and Celtic Frost and Motörhead and Slayer and Sepultura and Testament and all my 80's stuff. 1991's Horrorscope was a biggie for us back then, we were all Overkill fanbois at my house after the wife had left on Boxing Day 1990 and we wore that one out. Motörhead's 1916 was a biggie for me in '91 too. 

I did get into a few new mainstream "heavy" rock bands in the 90's grunge era, Alice in Chains & Soundgarden became big favorites of mine in the early-mid 90's that I found on the radio. I even bought the first 2 STP cassettes and got into some other lesser known grungey stuff like Tad, My Sister's Machine and Gruntruck. Found Type O Negative's Bloody Kisses in '93, I bought that on cassette the same day as Sacred Reich's Independent, and both of those became a big bands for me in the 90's. Social Distortion was a really big 90's band for me, not metal they're punk rock, but I still love and listen to them even now. COC was one of my 90's bands, also loved L7 and Circus of Power. 

By 1994 after my marriage had broken up I left town to go over the road trucking with just my little case of 24 cassette tapes. So for a couple of years there '94-'95 I basically checked out of the world and drove all around North America in my big rig with just my cassette tapes for company. Wore them bitches out. Occasionally they'd let me go home for a few days and I'd get to buy a new cassette or two. I remember one time around '93 or '94 MTV did a feature on new upcoming bands and they had Monster Magnet from New Jersey featured on there, and not long after that I saw their record in the store and I became a huge Monster Magnet fan. Huge I tell ya. Dopes to Infinity in 1995 became another album I used to play on endless repeat in my car for weeks at a time, as did the next 3 albums they released after that in '98, '00 & 2004, and to a lesser degree 4-Way Diablo in 2007 because by then I had already gotten heavily into death & black metal, but still I did a full decade of Monster Magnet worship. 2004 marks when I found extreme metal and everything turned upside down for me musically as within a year I had switched over to death and black metal becoming my primary listening choices, but that's another story which I've already told here a few different times. Supersuckers - The Evil Powers of Rock 'n' Roll was another big album for me in '99 while you were apparently a 24 year old Auckland lad skateboarding with your buds to Korn in your baggy pants and backwards cap.

Closest I ever came to flirting with nu-metal was a couple of bands I found on the radio. I owned White Zombie's Astro Creep record, and I bought the first two Godsmack albums on cassette around 2000, if either of those bands can be considered nu-metal. I also had 2 Puddle of Mudd albums on cassette in the early oughts, but I don't think they count as nu-metal that's just straight commercial hard rock. Also really loved the first Audioslave album in '02, (hated the 2nd one) but I don't think that's nu-metal just because Cornell's backing band happened to be the remnants of RATM whom I'd never liked at all. And I really liked that It's Been Awhile song by Staind they played on MTV that everyone else I know hated, even though I never bought their record or anything.

But that's about it man, no Korn for me, no Slipknot and definitely no Limp Bizkunt. Because even without being aware of all that 90's 2nd wave black metal or death metal that I now listen to until several years after the decade had ended, (because that stuff had disappeared underground in the early 90's as the mainstream music industry was busy transitioning their customers from poppy hair metal crap of the late 80's over to Nirvana and grunge) I was still easily able to navigate the 90's heavy music landscape and find stuff I enjoyed listening to staying around the outskirts of the mainstream without ever having to deal with utter garbage like Korn or Limp Bizkunt. I even made it through the 90's just fine without having to stoop to crap like Pantera or even Tool.

So there's nothing "revisionist" about my revulsion for rap-rock and nu-metal Jon-O. Korn, Bizkunt and Balloon-knot, that shit has always disgusted me. I have absolutely no problem with anyone else who might happen to dig any of that stuff though, to each his own, live and let live. We just had vastly different experiences with music in the 90's you and I Jon since I'm 14 years older than you we were at completely different points in our lives, two rad dudes from different backgrounds, different generations, living in different parts of the world. I find it amusing that you think just because you were into Korn 25 years ago that means everyone else into metal must have been into them as well. Like Korn were some kind of a juggernaut too big to ignore, simply inescapable and we're all just lying to cover up our sordid pasts.

And who the fuck is Cliff Richard?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

So there's nothing "revisionist" about my revulsion for rap-rock and nu-metal Jon-O. Korn, Bizkunt and Balloon-knot, that shit has always disgusted me. I have absolutely no problem with anyone else who might happen to dig any of that stuff though, to each his own, live and let live. We just had vastly different experiences with music in the 90's you and I Jon since I'm 14 years older than you we were at completely different points in our lives, two rad dudes from different backgrounds, different generations, living in different parts of the world. I find it amusing that you think just because you were into Korn 25 years ago that means everyone else into metal must have been into them as well. Like Korn were some kind of a juggernaut too big to ignore, simply inescapable and we're all just lying to cover up our sordid pasts.

And who the fuck is Cliff Richard?

No, you don't have to be into them and it's perfectly valid to hate it too. But...

I find it amusing that you think just because you wereN'T into Korn 25 years ago that means everyone else into metal must have NOT been into them as well.

However, you can't go far wrong with discovering Shades of God in 1992. We can at least agree it was and is better than Korn. I liked it more than Korn then, and I like it a lot more than Korn now. But I had room in my heart for both.

Interestingly, it sounds like you were more "mainstream" in the 90s than I was. While I knew of all those bands (and had a few AiC and Soundgarden CDs because, y'know, open mind), give me Disincarnate/Dreams of the Carrion Kind or Carcass/Necroticism anyday both then and now. Those would have been my most played albums.

D'oh, I realised after the last post where I said rap was my line in the sand, I must be full of shit.....as I am a massive Rage Against the Machine fan. I mean, I don't listen to it much which is why I forgot, but every few months I'll crank that shit while vacuuming the house.

It's surprising that Sir Cliff never made it to much consciousness in the States. He predated The Beatles with The Shadows and was huge in the UK. My mum liked him because he was wholesome, although I suspect his whole celibate/christian angle was simply because he is homosexual and never knew how to come to terms with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

No, you don't have to be into them and it's perfectly valid to hate it too. But...

I find it amusing that you think just because you wereN'T into Korn 25 years ago that means everyone else into metal must have NOT been into them as well.

However, you can't go far wrong with discovering Shades of God in 1992. We can at least agree it was and is better than Korn. I liked it more than Korn then, and I like it a lot more than Korn now. But I had room in my heart for both.

Interestingly, it sounds like you were more "mainstream" in the 90s than I was. While I knew of all those bands (and had a few AiC and Soundgarden CDs because, y'know, open mind), give me Disincarnate/Dreams of the Carrion Kind or Carcass/Necroticism anyday both then and now. Those would have been my most played albums.

D'oh, I realised after the last post where I said rap was my line in the sand, I must be full of shit.....as I am a massive Rage Against the Machine fan. I mean, I don't listen to it much which is why I forgot, but every few months I'll crank that shit while vacuuming the house.

It's surprising that Sir Cliff never made it to much consciousness in the States. He predated The Beatles with The Shadows and was huge in the UK. My mum liked him because he was wholesome, although I suspect his whole celibate/christian angle was simply because he is homosexual and never knew how to come to terms with it.

Oh yeah man, I was absolutely waaay more 'mainstream' than you were in the 90's. I was in my 30's in the 90's and busy working and trying to be an adult, then with a baby to take care of after the wife left at the end of '90. If you've ever seen that 80's movie Three Men and a Baby, that was us in '91 - '93 - except we had long hair, leather jackets, a bong on the table and a metal soundtrack on the stereo 24/7. I honestly had no idea there was this underground branch of the metal tree where they kept all your dangerous and subversive evil black and death metal (aka the good shit) and I wouldn't have had the time to dig for underground music back then anyway. I didn't get a computer and get hooked up to the internet until about '98, and even then it took me a few years to figure out how to use that thing to find the metal that I didn't know existed to be found.

So the 90's is almost like a lost decade for me, when I scroll down my MusicBee library and look through the 90's I see band after band that I didn't discover until the mid/late 2000's or 2010's. Obviouisly by now I've been able to make up for lost time and catch up with everything, but it wasn't easy as an old guy in his mid 40's forcing himself to get over the harsh vocals hump in '04 and then having to digest this avalanche of 15 year's worth of extreme metal all at once. I had to  sort through the rubble to find all the important bands I'd missed and see which kind of stuff I liked, and which stuff I didn't. I had people recommending shit to me from all sides and I had to learn whose tastes I meshed with and who was feeding me bullshit. I felt like I earned a 4 year degree in advanced underground metal in just 18 months and then spent the next decade getting my masters and Phd.

Funny though you mention rap being your line in the sand, because (and I know this is going to come as a pretty big shock) that was my line in the sand too! And that's why I hated all those nu-metal bands because to me Jon, they all just sounded like rap with guitars, and that's no bueno. I won't even listen to Suicidal which most metalheads seem to accept as metal (or metal enough) and I see the rock press usually refers to them as some kind of thrash/punk hybrid, but to me it's just basically rap with guitars. Not interested. Rage, Suicidal, Balloon-knot, Bizkunt, Korn it's all the same to me, rap with guitars, and it all goes on the no fly list, "No Can Do" to quote Hall and Oates. Even Pantera goes on that no fly list, something about them's just not kosher to me.

So you'll have to forgive me Jon if I find it hard to believe real actual metalheads over the age of maybe 20 who dig shit like Dreams of the Carrion Kind (an awesome album) & Descanting the Insalubrious (never got into Carcass, but not because they didn't pass the metal purity test) were also digging Life is Peachy and Significant Other. That's mind blowing to me. Obviously somebody had to buying all those millions of records but I didn't think it'd be many of us. (yes I do consider you to be one of us Jon, you'll be glad to know we will not be taking up excommunication proceedings against you for your past dalliances with Korn) But you'll have to excuse me, I have to take a shower now, I feel quite dirty from looking up and typing these nu-metal album titles. 

Oh and about Sir Cliff. I've looked him up yesterday and it seems he is the third biggest selling artist in UK history after the Beatles and Elvis. Who knew 🤷‍♂️ I do recognize a few of his song titles from his 116 year recording career, he did make it over to the states, I just wasn't familiar with his name or his face. I hear Cliff Richard and I think Keith Richards, so I want to call him Cliff Richards. But I know at the very least I've definitely heard We Don't Talk Anymore and Devil Woman on the radio in the past. In fact NY based heavy metal band Riot covered Devil Woman on their wonderful 1983 album Born in America. Terrible cover version, but I knew it was a cover of some old pop song I'd heard somewhere. That's typical for me, being so old I do recognize a shit ton of lame shitty old music from decades past when I hear it, but I'm not one who generally bothers to learn the song titles or artists' names of shit I don't even like. I can't even tell you song titles and band members' names of the current shit that I listen to every day.

 

Cliff Richard - Devil Woman, now I feel doubly dirty after listening to this rubbish.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Cliff Richard - Devil Woman, now I feel doubly dirty after listening to this rubbish.

I'm in the middle of War Master now, but I did have a soft spot for Devil Woman. With evil on her mind.

I don't know how Life is Peachy coexisted with Dreams of the Carrion kind either, but somehow it did. I should clarify that I did technically own Significant Other but I'm not sure I ever listened to it all the way through. I knew it wasn't really for me.

 

Got a ticket to Carcass just today for a June gig. They are playing 30 minutes away and I figured it would be actively rude not to go. 

I don't think Suicidal Tendencies is rap is it? I only have one compilation CD, which someone left in a CD player after a party 25 years ago....but it hits me right in the feels. There's something quaint about ST that always appealed to me. It was like a guy who couldn't sing well or play an instrument but tried really hard to see as his bandana kept falling over his eyes. Special needs. Bless.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JonoBlade said:

I don't think Suicidal Tendencies is rap is it? I only have one compilation CD, which someone left in a CD player after a party 25 years ago....but it hits me right in the feels. There's something quaint about ST that always appealed to me. It was like a guy who couldn't sing well or play an instrument but tried really hard to see as his bandana kept falling over his eyes. Special needs. Bless.

Mike Muir removes bandana to reveal horrific exposed brain!

Mike Muir Removes Bandana to Reveal Horrific Exposed Brain

 

Idk they look pretty nu-metal/ghetto to me. Strange as fuck to see Dave Lombardo standing there with them. But I guess he has bills to pay, I'm sure Kerry, Tom and the management were never paying him right.

The power of positivity: Why Mike Muir will always fight for freedom |  Louder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Idk they look pretty nu-metal/ghetto to me. Strange as fuck to see Dave Lombardo standing there with them. But I guess he has bills to pay, I'm sure Kerry, Tom and the management were never paying him right.

I don't recognise any of these faces but the dude on the far left at least has the grace to look a little embarrassed. I am so glad I missed all this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Join Metal Forum

    joinus-home.jpg

  • Our picks

    • Whichever tier of thrash metal you consigned Sacred Reich back in the 80's/90's they still had their moments.  "Ignorance" & "Surf Nicaragura" did a great job of establishing the band, whereas "The American Way" just got a little to comfortable and accessible (the title track grates nowadays) for my ears.  A couple more records better left forgotten about and then nothing for twenty three years.  2019 alone has now seen three releases from Phil Rind and co.  A live EP, a split EP with Iron Reagan and now a full length.

      Notable addition to the ranks for the current throng of releases is former Machine Head sticksman, Dave McClean.  Love or hate Machine Head, McClean is a more than capable drummer and his presence here is felt from the off with the opening and title track kicking things off with some real gusto.  'Divide & Conquer' and 'Salvation' muddle along nicely, never quite reaching any quality that would make my balls tingle but comfortable enough.  The looming build to 'Manifest Reality' delivers a real punch when the song starts proper.  Frenzied riffs and drums with shots of lead work to hold the interest.


      There's a problem already though (I know, I am such a fucking mood hoover).  I don't like Phil's vocals.  I never had if I am being honest.  The aggression to them seems a little forced even when they are at their best on tracks like 'Manifest Reality'.  When he tries to sing it just feels weak though ('Salvation') and tracks lose real punch.  Give him a riffy number such as 'Killing Machine' and he is fine with the Reich engine (probably a poor choice of phrase) up in sixth gear.  For every thrashy riff there's a fair share of rock edged, local bar act rhythm aplenty too.

      Let's not poo-poo proceedings though, because overall I actually enjoy "Awakening".  It is stacked full of catchy riffs that are sticky on the old ears.  Whilst not as raw as perhaps the - brilliant - artwork suggests with its black and white, tattoo flash sheet style design it is enjoyable enough.  Yes, 'Death Valley' & 'Something to Believe' have no place here, saved only by Arnett and Radziwill's lead work but 'Revolution' is a fucking 80's thrash heyday throwback to the extent that if you turn the TV on during it you might catch a new episode of Cheers!

      3/5
      • Reputation Points

      • 10 replies
    • I
      • Reputation Points

      • 2 replies
    • https://www.metalforum.com/blogs/entry/52-vltimas-something-wicked-marches-in/
      • Reputation Points

      • 3 replies

    • https://www.metalforum.com/blogs/entry/48-candlemass-the-door-to-doom/
      • Reputation Points

      • 2 replies
    • Full length number 19 from overkill certainly makes a splash in the energy stakes, I mean there's some modern thrash bands that are a good two decades younger than Overkill who can only hope to achieve the levels of spunk that New Jersey's finest produce here.  That in itself is an achievement, for a band of Overkill's stature and reputation to be able to still sound relevant four decades into their career is no mean feat.  Even in the albums weaker moments it never gets redundant and the energy levels remain high.  There's a real sense of a band in a state of some renewed vigour, helped in no small part by the addition of Jason Bittner on drums.  The former Flotsam & Jetsam skinsman is nothing short of superb throughout "The Wings of War" and seems to have squeezed a little extra out of the rest of his peers.

      The album kicks of with a great build to opening track "Last Man Standing" and for the first 4 tracks of the album the Overkill crew stomp, bash and groove their way to a solid level of consistency.  The lead work is of particular note and Blitz sounds as sneery and scathing as ever.  The album is well produced and mixed too with all parts of the thrash machine audible as the five piece hammer away at your skull with the usual blend of chugging riffs and infectious anthems.  


      There are weak moments as mentioned but they are more a victim of how good the strong tracks are.  In it's own right "Distortion" is a solid enough - if not slightly varied a journey from the last offering - but it just doesn't stand up well against a "Bat Shit Crazy" or a "Head of a Pin".  As the album draws to a close you get the increasing impression that the last few tracks are rescued really by some great solos and stomping skin work which is a shame because trimming of a couple of tracks may have made this less obvious. 

      4/5
      • Reputation Points

      • 4 replies
×
×
  • Create New...