Jump to content

Did the appearance and media breakthrough of Master of Puppets in Stranger Things upset you?


AdamGavriely

Did the appearance and media breakthrough of Master of Puppets in Stranger Things upset you?  

8 members have voted

  1. 1. How were you feeling when watching the Master of Puppets scene for the first time?

    • I was super excited
    • I was glad
    • It was okay, I guess...
    • Ehhh, didn't like it
      0
    • It was horrible
      0
  2. 2. How do you feel about its breakthrough into the media and mainstream?

    • I'm happy more people discover metal because of it
    • I'm happy it finally gets the appreciation it deserves
    • I don't care / don't have an opinion about it
    • I'm angry at people who don't really like the song for what it is but only for appearing in some popular TV show
    • I'm upset that it became a lot more mainstream that it used to be. Thrash metal should stay in the underground and only for people who can really appreciate it.
  3. 3. If someone will hear Master of Puppets and will say "Ooh, It's that song from Stranger Things!" how will you react?

    • I'll say "Yeah! It's really good, right?"
    • I'll say "It's actually a Metallica song"
    • I'll yell at them with my jet-black eyes "NO!!! YOU'RE NOT A REAL METALHEAD!!! IT'S OURS!!!!!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO LISTEN TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
      0
    • I'll pretend like I didn't hear them and will walk away as fast as I can


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

 

Mainstream metal as in I like the more popular metal bands eg Megadeth or Slayer or whatever.  Note these are still deep underground for the mainstream of society.  Metallica circa 1986 is still underground extreme metal to your average Madonna/Justin Bieber/Bille Eileesh/Eminem fan.

And even my mainstream bands aren't exactly watered down pop like Nightwish or Papa Roach or whatever.  

Also the periods I like of bands is generally their underground period - I mean In Flames circa 1996 was underground (I started listening to them around 1997-98)  unlike In Flames circa 2023.

And shit I see you cranking Overkill or Paradise Lost too if we're going to talk mainstream metal.

Absoutely, I listen to plenty of mainstream stuff. Maybe not a lot by percentage of my total listening, but it's certainly not a rare thing. A lot of it's not even metal. But you're the one that doesn't want the 'mainstream muppets' finding out about metal, while me, I'm not trying to keep anyone away. I don't care who finds out about it, the more the merrier I say. Bring on the muppets. But yet most of the music I love remains obscure and marginaized if not competely dismissed even by most so-called metalheads. I wish everyone listened to metal and then learned to look deeper than the surface, and that this was normalized, the rule rather than the exception. I'm tired of getting crazy looks from people when I answer the question "so what bands do you like?" or my favorite: "Oh you're going to a metal festival? Who's playing?" like I'm some kind of deviant.

But why are we using your definition of "mainstream" and not mine anyway? I understand that you don't only listen to the more mainstream metal bands, just like I don't only isten to lo-fi black metal. But I know you still identify as basically a mainstreamer, at least as far as just within the metal and commercial hard rock communities. Remember we're not talking about the rest of the world right now, grannies and soccer moms and Kardashians and farmers and businessmen and baristas and Bieberboys or whomever, people who would never have any interest whatsoever in any kind of metal or hard rock to begin with. People who think Nickleback, AC/DC and Bon Jovi are metal bands. You keep pointing out that they know nothing of metal but we know this already. Forget those people, they're a lost cause.

No, right now we're talking about mainstream metallers and rockers who are mostly younger people. People who would listen to bands like Metallica, Lamb of god, 5FDP, AV7X, Asking Alexandria, Lorna Shore, Korn, Linkin Park, Slipknot, Bullet for my Valentine, Rammstein....You really think your favorite mainstream metal bands Megadeth, Pantera, Maiden, GnR...whomever else you'd include are so far removed from those other popuar mainstream metal and rock bands I listed? I'm not saying you listen to 'watered down pop' but I'm sorry man, many of these mainstream metal bands and legacy metal bands that you enjoy are not 'deep underground' to the mainstream metal crowd anymore, they've gotten quite well known. Looks like the secret has leaked out. Because why else would you be whinging about the 'mainstream muppets' invading your space and shitting everything up and wishing they'd never even heard about metal, unless they were doing just that? They don't bother with most of my deviant metal and crust bands, but I guarantee you there's penty of normies and mainstream muppets to be found at the Maiden, Pantera and Megadeth shows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, AlSymerz said:

The best thing about this news just coming to light regarding inviting all people to be metalheads is that if I no longer need to tell people I was born with a metal pole up my arse to be accepted as a metalhead. I can go back to letting everyone think there a big stick up there again!

 

Nobody cares what you like to stick up there. I think we can all agree that what happens on the farm should stay on the farm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Absoutely, I listen to plenty of mainstream stuff. Maybe not a lot by percentage of my total listening, but it's certainly not a rare thing. A lot of it's not even metal. But you're the one that doesn't want the 'mainstream muppets' finding out about metal, while me, I'm not trying to keep anyone away. I don't care who finds out about it, the more the merrier I say. Bring on the muppets. But yet most of the music I love remains obscure and marginaized if not competely dismissed even by most so-called metalheads. I wish everyone listened to metal and then learned to look deeper than the surface, and that this was normalized, the rule rather than the exception. I'm tired of getting crazy looks from people when I answer the question "so what bands do you like?" or my favorite: "Oh you're going to a metal festival? Who's playing?" like I'm some kind of deviant.

But why are we using your definition of "mainstream" and not mine anyway? I understand that you don't only listen to the more mainstream metal bands, just like I don't only isten to lo-fi black metal. But I know you still identify as basically a mainstreamer, at least as far as just within the metal and commercial hard rock communities. Remember we're not talking about the rest of the world right now, grannies and soccer moms and Kardashians and farmers and businessmen and baristas and Bieberboys or whomever, people who would never have any interest whatsoever in any kind of metal or hard rock to begin with. People who think Nickleback, AC/DC and Bon Jovi are metal bands. You keep pointing out that they know nothing of metal but we know this already. Forget those people, they're a lost cause.

No, right now we're talking about mainstream metallers and rockers who are mostly younger people. People who would listen to bands like Metallica, Lamb of god, 5FDP, AV7X, Asking Alexandria, Lorna Shore, Korn, Linkin Park, Slipknot, Bullet for my Valentine, Rammstein....You really think your favorite mainstream metal bands Megadeth, Pantera, Maiden, GnR...whomever else you'd include are so far removed from those other popuar mainstream metal and rock bands I listed? I'm not saying you listen to 'watered down pop' but I'm sorry man, many of these mainstream metal bands and legacy metal bands that you enjoy are not 'deep underground' to the mainstream metal crowd anymore, they've gotten quite well known. Looks like the secret has leaked out. Because why else would you be whinging about the 'mainstream muppets' invading your space and shitting everything up and wishing they'd never even heard about metal, unless they were doing just that? They don't bother with most of my deviant metal and crust bands, but I guarantee you there's penty of normies and mainstream muppets to be found at the Maiden, Pantera and Megadeth shows.

 

Firstly you seem to have missed the entire topic of this conversation which was Metallica's Master of Puppets being used as a feature song on Stranger Things which is a very popular TV show.  This is the same show that propelled a 1985 Kate Bush song back to number 1 including in Britain (https://winteriscoming.net/2022/06/20/running-up-that-hill-kate-bush-number-1-stranger-things/).

You now hear Master of Puppets everywhere in places you generally never heard even rock let alone metal - eg my kid's swimming lessons or at the local trivia.

Thus the mainstreamers I was referring to were Justin Beiber and Kanye fans, not metal or rock fans.

 

I don't want my favourite thrash metal tunes becoming fodder for mainstreamers.

 

I certainly don't want metal normalised - I like it exclusive.  I don't buy into any concept of inclusivity because in modern terms that's just another way of making it into commercial shit.  And it's already too commercialised - to me stuff like Hellfest, metal award ceremonies and the amount of merchandise and overall exposure metal gets is already too much.  I don't like over commercialisation (I am a socialist after all).

 

Metal should be a black hole you fall into accidentally - literally it should be something you hear by chance and then it resonates with your soul strong enough for you to go digging.

 

Now I know you prefer it this way - you've done more digging than anyone I have ever met.

 

 

Second you are totally right that Maiden, Pantera etc are mainstream metal.  Your average mainstream person who doesn't listen to metal (probably 99% of the population) has never heard of them or even Slipknot or Korn or Limp Bizkit.  I've met people my age and younger who have never heard of Metallica or Guns N Roses.

Also most of what I listen to is still too underground for the mainstream rock/metal scene which is actually far more commercialised than what you even think.  In that context Lamb of God and Pantera and Slipknot are ultrabrutal (and in fact most mainstreamers I met never listen to Lamb of God who they thought was death metal).

Eg look at Loudwire articles for what is the real mainstream rock/metal scene:

 

https://loudwire.com/

 

Third most of what I listen to doesn't really fit into that mainstream category.  Dunno how bands like Kreator or Nevermore or Edge of Sanity can be compared with Pantera and Iron Maiden let alone Linkin Park and Avenged Sevenfold in terms of popularity - literally you're saying arena acts and bands that that could maybe fill a 1000 seat venue on a good day are the same thing.

 

 

Also when I got into stuff like Nevermore and Kreator and Edge of Sanity (mid-late 1990s) most of this stuff was more obscure than even your goat music now.  It wasn't available in the shops (hell I couldn't even find Iron Maiden or Megadeth in the shops in those days!).  It certainly wasn't covered in mainstream metal/rock press ala Metal Hammer.  You couldn't buy Terrorizer in local news agents.

You certainly couldn't download it.

You basically had to trawl the early and very limited internet and the import bins of local shops who very occasionally got a metal release in and then go through thank you lists in inlays to discover new music.

I discovered a lot of stuff through a couple of sessions of the national "heavy music" show on Triple J when they had a guy called Dave Macmillan backfill the main DJ.  Main DJ played commercial Aussie hard rock with odd metal song.  Dave Macmillan played a butt ton of melodic death metal that opened my ears to this whole European thing.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Firstly you seem to have missed the entire topic of this conversation which was Metallica's Master of Puppets being used as a feature song on Stranger Things which is a very popular TV show.  This is the same show that propelled a 1985 Kate Bush song back to number 1 including in Britain. You now hear Master of Puppets everywhere in places you generally never heard even rock let alone metal - eg my kid's swimming lessons or at the local trivia.

I didn't miss the thread topic, I addressed that in my post to the OP back on page 1. This is page 3, I've moved on from that Stranger Things/Master of Puppets discussion and I was specifically replying to your post directly. The one where you said you wish the mainstream had never heard of metal. 

Thus the mainstreamers I was referring to were Justin Beiber and Kanye fans, not metal or rock fans.

Yes sir, I know exactly who and what you were referring to. But again, why are we using your definition of "mainstream?" I prefer to use my own. As we've discussed before several times, there are several layers to the underground, and several layers to the mainstream. Why would anyone here on this forum, least of all me, be talking about shit ike Beyonce, Timberlake, Ye and Biebs? I've never even knowingly heard any of these artists, I only recognize their names. What the fuck do these superstar types of pop artists have to do with the price of Vegemite in Melbourne? It's like that movie Elysium, you had Beyonce, Mariah, Ye and Biebs up on the luxury space station with Jody Fucking Foster, and then the rest of us yobos stuck down here in the post apocalyptic landscape fighting it out for crumbs with Matt Douchebag Damon. As you know I concern myself primariy with the world of metal, punk and rock music. When I say "mainstream" please know that I'm talking about mainstream heavy rock and metal. Slipknot, Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera, Lamb of god, Foo Fighters. You know I'm not ever talking about Yeezy.  Because like you've just pointed out, Metallica can now officially be considered "mainstream" if they're piping it into the pool area for your daughter's swimming lessons, no?

They certainly weren't in any way mainstream when I first discovered them in 1983, but they sure as shit are now and they have been for quite some time, since Sandman I guess and that's over 30 years ago now. As can many of the legacy bands you cite as some of your all-time favorites, like Pantera, Maiden and Megadeth. These are mainstream major label metal bands that you enjoy but I don't typically listen to. Like all metaheads of my vintage (except for Doc, seeems he took an entirey different path than the rest of us to reach metal nirvana) I used to like Metallica & MegDave and lots of other mainstream bands back in the 80's. But the last Mega album I liked was Countdown, and that was 31 years ago. I've since moved on from not all, but most of those 80's bands. Because I found black and death metal and I simply like that better. It works for me. 

I don't want my favourite thrash metal tunes becoming fodder for mainstreamers.

I certainly don't want metal normalised - I like it exclusive.  I don't buy into any concept of inclusivity because in modern terms that's just another way of making it into commercial shit.  And it's already too commercialised - to me stuff like Hellfest, metal award ceremonies and the amount of merchandise and overall exposure metal gets is already too much.  I don't like over commercialisation (I am a socialist after all).

Metal should be a black hole you fall into accidentally - literally it should be something you hear by chance and then it resonates with your soul strong enough for you to go digging. Now I know you prefer it this way - you've done more digging than anyone I have ever met.

I can agree with most of that, (except for the wanting metal to remain exclusive part) I too abhor over-commercialization. But I was looking at this from an entirely different perspective. I wasn't thinking in terms of normie mainstream muppets coming into the metal scene and cheapening it, or ruining it for all of us like you seem to be afraid of. I was thinking in terms of people who aren't currently metalheads discovering metal bands and gradually becoming one of us and learning how to do their "digging." (I love the digging) I believe that once we've lured them in by cleverly putting Master of Puppets on an episode of a kids' tv show as the bait, then we can hook them and reel them in and assimilate them! Metalheads Unite!! (cue Overkill's: In Union We Stand)

I reckon metal is one of those products that basically sells itsef. Like high fructose corn syrup. Once you get a taste for it you're hooked and you can't walk away even if you wanted to. Aren't you mainstream guys always prattling on about 'gateway bands' and how much we need them to lure in new recruits? Like I've said countless times, we all had to start somewhere, none of us were born metalheads, not even you or me, the two most metal motherfuckers here. I believe in giving n00bs a chance to get on board and get with the program before I admonish, castigate, condemn and crucify them. You can't expect all these metal n00b to be seasoned veterans like us who know all the ropes right from day one.

Second you are totally right that Maiden, Pantera etc are mainstream metal. 

Of course I'm right. Glad you agreed without a fight. Again, I'm not saying those bands are watered down pop, they are metal bands. But they can definitely be considered "mainstream" by most anyone's definition. 

Your average mainstream person who doesn't listen to metal (probably 99% of the population) has never heard of them or even Slipknot or Korn or Limp Bizkit.  I've met people my age and younger who have never heard of Metallica or Guns N Roses.

Yes we've covered this countless times. Normies and squares live their entire pathetic lives blissfully unaware of metal's very existence. 100% true, but not germane to our conversation.

Also most of what I listen to is still too underground for the mainstream rock/metal scene which is actually far more commercialised than what you even think.  In that context Lamb of God and Pantera and Slipknot are ultrabrutal (and in fact most mainstreamers I met never listen to Lamb of God who they thought was death metal).

Third most of what I listen to doesn't really fit into that mainstream category.  Dunno how bands like Kreator or Nevermore or Edge of Sanity can be compared with Pantera and Iron Maiden let alone Linkin Park and Avenged Sevenfold in terms of popularity - literally you're saying arena acts and bands that that could maybe fill a 1000 seat venue on a good day are the same thing.

Deadovic, my dude. You have to realize that I understand all of this. You've been posting with me for like 7 years now. Surely you've picked up on the fact that I'm prone to use hyperbole and exaggeration to make my point, right? You know I'll do or say just about anything and go as far as need be to take the piss, right? Besides, I never said mainstream metal was all you listened to. I did say that I know you listen to other deeper stuff as well. I promise you I'm really not trying to undermine you or call your extreme hardcore metalness into question bro. Never.

But we can agree there are nuanced layers to the mainstream. Meaning of course I know there's a difference between Megadeth, Maiden and Pantera vs bands like Linkin Park, Slipknot and Avenged 7X. But yet all those bands on both sides of that equation are still mainstream. Different layers of mainstream maybe, but mainstream all the same. So what I did was I took the liberty of implying that they're all basically the exact same thing in order to take the piss out of you. (you don't mind, it's all in good fun, we're cool, right?) Because you've said many times that you do consider yoursef a mainstream metaller and I know that you also still dig a lot of those classic legacy metal bands from the 80's & 90's, many of which have gotten to be pretty well known by now to the point I'd call them mainstream as well. So to me sir, you're a mainstreamer and that's that. (Yes FYI I do consider Nevermore and Kreator to be mainstream major label metal bands as well, just not top tier Metallica level mainstream) So when I see you firing shots across the bow of the mainstream it amuses me. I find it ironic. I chuckle. I shake my head. Because you're a mainstreamer too! So for the sake of this debate I'm lumping all these things together. Mainstream is as mainstream does. Even though I do know they're never in a million years going to be playing Far Beyond Drivel or Rust in Peace or even Dead Heart in a Dead World at your daughter's swim meet.

Also when I got into stuff like Nevermore and Kreator and Edge of Sanity (mid-late 1990s) most of this stuff was more obscure than even your goat music now.  It wasn't available in the shops (hell I couldn't even find Iron Maiden or Megadeth in the shops in those days!).  It certainly wasn't covered in mainstream metal/rock press ala Metal Hammer. You couldn't buy Terrorizer in local news agents.

You certainly couldn't download it.

You basically had to trawl the early and very limited internet and the import bins of local shops who very occasionally got a metal release in and then go through thank you lists in inlays to discover new music.

I discovered a lot of stuff through a couple of sessions of the national "heavy music" show on Triple J when they had a guy called Dave Macmillan backfill the main DJ.  Main DJ played commercial Aussie hard rock with odd metal song.  Dave Macmillan played a butt ton of melodic death metal that opened my ears to this whole European thing.

I know what we had to do to find good music back in the 80's. I was doing it long before you were. No metal of any kind whatsoever on the radio back then and no internet for another 20 years meant that we had to go to shows and talk to people to get recos for bands and make friends with the dude who owned the specialty metal record store an hour away so we could pick his brain. We'd comb through the import racks for hours and bring an armload of shit up to the counter and then ask him to go through it all one by one and tell us which ones were good. Because we couldn't afford to bring them all home, much as we wanted to. You probably had it a little bit easier as a teenager in the 90's finding out about bands because metal was already a thing by then. You must have had at least some resources to help you find bands. Our only resource was living nearby NYC so in the early and mid 80's we'd just go to metal clubs that had bands playing and see who we coud see, and talk to who we coud talk to, to find out about new bands. Fortunately for us, every US tour comes through New York. We had club shows to go to pretty much every night and even mulltipe shows to pick from many nights. I want to say I'm more nostalgic for those times, but while I do cherish many of the memories I have of those shows, and the times we had getting to and from them, I do much prefer the modern way of being able to hear whatever I want on the internet first before deciding if I want to buy it or not.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goatmaster General,

Err I was responding to the topic about Stranger Things not whatever you were talking about.  That topic is literally about mainstream non-metal listening majority of humans who watch Stranger Things.  Your definition or my definition of metal mainstream is irrelevant to the topic.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Late to the discussion, first time poster here!

How is Metallica/Stranger Things any different to what's been going on since the 90's and probably before?  Megadeth in Last Action Hero, Metallica in Mission Impossible II, Slayer in Judgement Night, Megadeth in Shocker, Anthrax in Married with Children. Then there was completely inane movies that were some what popular in their own right that tried to have a heavy metal element in the story, Airheads, Rockstar, Studio 666, even black metal got a go in more recent films like Lords Of Chaos and to a lesser degree Metal Lords.

Metal has been part of the mainstream tv/movie world pretty much since metal was created and someone decided to market it. Complaining now that a some what popular show has a metal band in it is leaving things a bit late.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That Anthrax/Married With Children thing recently had an anniversary, maybe 30 years, I don't remember. All I remember was Scott Ian prattling on about it like it was such a great thing, but I remember it being fairly cringe worthy and I also don't think Scott got that much air time I think it was Danny and Joey. (But I could be wrong)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am living in a village and I always remember all the kids hanging together and we always looked up to the older kids. I first heard Metallica when the older kids were listening to it I still get the goosebumps when Blackened starts playing :) And when we got older younger kids looked up to us :)  We have a semi pro skateboarder in our village and he once said he would have never skate if it wasn't for us, older kids, and I felt proud of it :) 

My daughter loves Stranger Things and she is blasting MoP a lot and I hope she will get to explore the music as much as we did.

So where I'm going with this is that almost everybody was introduced to metal somehow and if it by some TV show I don't see any problems with that. Those who will want to explore any further will do so and those who won't will know only one Metallica's song 😃

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, AlSymerz said:

That Anthrax/Married With Children thing recently had an anniversary, maybe 30 years, I don't remember. All I remember was Scott Ian prattling on about it like it was such a great thing, but I remember it being fairly cringe worthy and I also don't think Scott got that much air time I think it was Danny and Joey. (But I could be wrong)

I remember when it aired in the first place....I don't think there was any advanced notice. Everyone at my high school watched Married with Children and Anthrax was quite popular too. In that same year they toured AU/NZ. It was my first big gig.

At the time I felt sorry for Joey because he didn't actually get to be seen singing in the episode. Scott does the spoken word intro and the regular audience may have assumed he was the singer. And the guy sitting on the sofa was a groupie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I for one think it's great that more people discover metal, Metallica, or just a new song they like. Why not? Master of Puppets are objectively a fantastic song and I'd much rather young people associate Metallica with that compared to Enter Sandman.

Metal in general is not underground or obscure in 2023, hasn't been for 20 odd years as the metalhead teens of the 80's grew up and started buying $60 Motorhead rum and $120 VIP festival tickets. Wacken and Hellfest attract hundreds of thousands of people every year. Metal is not underground. There's subgenres that isn't widely known, but that's beside the point. And if there's one band to gatekeep, Metallica isn't one of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sheol said:

I for one think it's great that more people discover metal, Metallica, or just a new song they like. Why not? Master of Puppets are objectively a fantastic song and I'd much rather young people associate Metallica with that compared to Enter Sandman.

Metal in general is not underground or obscure in 2023, hasn't been for 20 odd years as the metalhead teens of the 80's grew up and started buying $60 Motorhead rum and $120 VIP festival tickets. Wacken and Hellfest attract hundreds of thousands of people every year. Metal is not underground. There's subgenres that isn't widely known, but that's beside the point. And if there's one band to gatekeep, Metallica isn't one of them.

It's a lot more underground over here Johan, most Americans are completely unaware of metal's existence outside of the very biggest names: Metallica, Ozzy possibly Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Slipknot and some LA glam bands living off radio hits they had 40 years ago. And I guess maybe some people have learned about some of these poppier metalcore bands from their kids. We don't have anything like a Wacken here, our biggest metal festivals are lucky to draw 5 to 10,000 in a country of 330 million. Most people here think radio friendly hard rock bands like GnR, AC/DC and Van Halen are what "heavy metal" is. Which is why many metal bands spend more time playing gigs in Europe than they do here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recall during that time a lot of nu-metal aired on the radio, much like grunge had before and various songs from Metallica, Megadeath also had quite a lot of air time on the heavy radio stations.   It stopped there and didn't go much lower.   While it is a different topic, I think that is so of the reason why nu-metal was so hated by the metal community, because apart from being cheesy AF, it brought a lot more attention to heavier music and with it the riff-raff.  

A lot of my family and friends of my age know of metal even if they don't listen to a lot of it.  They aren't unaware, just not heavily into it.  My brother in law was big into thrash at a younger age but now listens to some metal along with a bunch of country.  

My take is that a large part depends on the generation you grew up as the 90s and 2000s had a fair bit of heavy music weaved into mainstream media.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, JorKid said:

I recall during that time a lot of nu-metal aired on the radio, much like grunge had before and various songs from Metallica, Megadeath also had quite a lot of air time on the heavy radio stations.   It stopped there and didn't go much lower.   While it is a different topic, I think that is some of the reason why nu-metal was so hated by the metal community, because apart from being cheesy AF, it brought a lot more attention to heavier music and with it the riff-raff.  

A lot of my family and friends of my age know of metal even if they don't listen to a lot of it.  They aren't unaware, just not heavily into it.  My brother in law was big into thrash at a younger age but now listens to some metal along with a bunch of country.  

My take is that a large part depends on the generation you grew up as the 90s and 2000s had a fair bit of heavy music weaved into mainstream media.  

 

Whatever small amount of heavy music has been represented in the media has generally been shit forever. It was shit in the 80's, still shit in the 90's & 2000's as well as in the 2010's and 20's. The only Metallica songs I ever heard played on the radio back in the 80's were Master of Puppets a few times and One. And then when the black album came out you had Sandman and all the ballads and slower songs, Unforgiven, Memory Remains...those became radio staples. But never any of their good songs from the 80's albums. But then NY radio has always been notoriously closed off to new and heavy music. There was always one shitty classic rock station paying safe 70's and 80's hits from the past, and then 20 "urban" rap, r&b and pop stations doing their things. Could have been much different in other markets, I don't know.

As far as nu-metal, I think what it comes down to is that older established metal fans hated nu-metal 20 - 25 years ago because to us it was absolute shit, it was inferior to metal in evey way. And it was hard to take seeing all these clueless teenie-boppers making these shitty pathetic clown bands like Korn and Balloon-knot and Limp Bizkunt into big household names overnight, and suddenly you had normies and parents thinking that stuff was what "metal" meant. While we knew nobody was ever gonna care about or even get an opportunity to hear and recognize the greatness of all the superior kick-ass real metal bands we were into. So we resented what we saw as those talentless hack bands for cutting the line and achieving so much success right away for basically doing nothing more than being edgy and dressing like fools, while we felt our favorite real metal bands had paid their dues long enough, and had been unfairly passed over. But you're right, one's perspective on this nu-metal business definitely depends on what generation you belonged to. I wasn't a high school kid in the 90's, I had gone to high school in the 70's. That nu-metal crap wasn't aimed at 40 year olds like me, it was aimed at younger kids like you Joshy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

As far as nu-metal, I think what it comes down to is that older established metal fans hated nu-metal 20 - 25 years ago because to us it was absolute shit, it was inferior to metal in evey way. And it was hard to take seeing all these clueless teenie-boppers making these shitty pathetic clown bands like Korn and Balloon-knot and Limp Bizkunt into big household names overnight, and suddenly you had normies and parents thinking that stuff was what "metal" meant. 

Just to be contrarian, Slipknot is a huge gimmick but it is quite heavy. It blended more extreme forms of metal with studio trickery and DJ beeps and whistles. Myself and those around me in mid-90s had Korn, Slipknot and even Limp Bizkit albums and went to those gigs (anyone remember when Limp Bizkit headlined Big Day Out?) at the same time as worshipping at the alter of death (the whole genre, not just the one band). 

Now, I don't think any of that nu-metal stuff has aged well and it wasn't particularly good to start with, but it gave a new lease of life to the genre and can act as a gateway to other things. I'm not embarrassed that I listened to that stuff and didn't hate it. But we did grow apart. 

Since my tastes and what comprised "classic" bands had already been solidified by 1990, nu-metal wasn't going to supplant any of that, but I know plenty of people a few years younger than me that think Linkin Park is amazing and established their benchmark for what the heavy genre is.*

Just as I was born in a relatively stable period in history and enjoyed a care-free upbringing; and won't experience the full force of living in a collapsing hellscape until my twilight years; it's all luck of the draw.

*recently I was having a drink with a drummer I use for session work. He can do all the extreme blast stuff and is super awesome....and it came out in conversation his favourite band is Limp Bizkit. I almost choked.  I did think less of him, but that says more about me than him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Off topic, but not really, I've been relistening and reevaluating my Boris collection after their 30th anniversary with 3 releases in 2022. In my mind they are the best heavy rock band that is not exactly metal but sometimes metal in the 2000's and yet, I'll bet out of experimental and metal circles and maybe some hipsters the vast majority of rock fans haven't ever heard of them.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Join Metal Forum

    joinus-home.jpg

  • Our picks

    • Whichever tier of thrash metal you consigned Sacred Reich back in the 80's/90's they still had their moments.  "Ignorance" & "Surf Nicaragura" did a great job of establishing the band, whereas "The American Way" just got a little to comfortable and accessible (the title track grates nowadays) for my ears.  A couple more records better left forgotten about and then nothing for twenty three years.  2019 alone has now seen three releases from Phil Rind and co.  A live EP, a split EP with Iron Reagan and now a full length.

      Notable addition to the ranks for the current throng of releases is former Machine Head sticksman, Dave McClean.  Love or hate Machine Head, McClean is a more than capable drummer and his presence here is felt from the off with the opening and title track kicking things off with some real gusto.  'Divide & Conquer' and 'Salvation' muddle along nicely, never quite reaching any quality that would make my balls tingle but comfortable enough.  The looming build to 'Manifest Reality' delivers a real punch when the song starts proper.  Frenzied riffs and drums with shots of lead work to hold the interest.


      There's a problem already though (I know, I am such a fucking mood hoover).  I don't like Phil's vocals.  I never had if I am being honest.  The aggression to them seems a little forced even when they are at their best on tracks like 'Manifest Reality'.  When he tries to sing it just feels weak though ('Salvation') and tracks lose real punch.  Give him a riffy number such as 'Killing Machine' and he is fine with the Reich engine (probably a poor choice of phrase) up in sixth gear.  For every thrashy riff there's a fair share of rock edged, local bar act rhythm aplenty too.

      Let's not poo-poo proceedings though, because overall I actually enjoy "Awakening".  It is stacked full of catchy riffs that are sticky on the old ears.  Whilst not as raw as perhaps the - brilliant - artwork suggests with its black and white, tattoo flash sheet style design it is enjoyable enough.  Yes, 'Death Valley' & 'Something to Believe' have no place here, saved only by Arnett and Radziwill's lead work but 'Revolution' is a fucking 80's thrash heyday throwback to the extent that if you turn the TV on during it you might catch a new episode of Cheers!

      3/5
      • Reputation Points

      • 10 replies
    • I
      • Reputation Points

      • 2 replies
    • https://www.metalforum.com/blogs/entry/52-vltimas-something-wicked-marches-in/
      • Reputation Points

      • 3 replies

    • https://www.metalforum.com/blogs/entry/48-candlemass-the-door-to-doom/
      • Reputation Points

      • 2 replies
    • Full length number 19 from overkill certainly makes a splash in the energy stakes, I mean there's some modern thrash bands that are a good two decades younger than Overkill who can only hope to achieve the levels of spunk that New Jersey's finest produce here.  That in itself is an achievement, for a band of Overkill's stature and reputation to be able to still sound relevant four decades into their career is no mean feat.  Even in the albums weaker moments it never gets redundant and the energy levels remain high.  There's a real sense of a band in a state of some renewed vigour, helped in no small part by the addition of Jason Bittner on drums.  The former Flotsam & Jetsam skinsman is nothing short of superb throughout "The Wings of War" and seems to have squeezed a little extra out of the rest of his peers.

      The album kicks of with a great build to opening track "Last Man Standing" and for the first 4 tracks of the album the Overkill crew stomp, bash and groove their way to a solid level of consistency.  The lead work is of particular note and Blitz sounds as sneery and scathing as ever.  The album is well produced and mixed too with all parts of the thrash machine audible as the five piece hammer away at your skull with the usual blend of chugging riffs and infectious anthems.  


      There are weak moments as mentioned but they are more a victim of how good the strong tracks are.  In it's own right "Distortion" is a solid enough - if not slightly varied a journey from the last offering - but it just doesn't stand up well against a "Bat Shit Crazy" or a "Head of a Pin".  As the album draws to a close you get the increasing impression that the last few tracks are rescued really by some great solos and stomping skin work which is a shame because trimming of a couple of tracks may have made this less obvious. 

      4/5
      • Reputation Points

      • 4 replies
×
×
  • Create New...