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No doubts that fruit and vegetable evolution has happened due to ingestion/transportation and depositing. There's plenty of studies that show how this process has differed in fruits and vegetables that have become 'staples' as opposed the slower evolution of the fruits and vegetables that indigenous people ate thousands of years ago. It's a process that has been going on for millions of years. But was that their original purpose? Was their original purpose to be eaten in the first place? Where they created to evolve into something better through a process that may or may not have existed before their creation?

It's the age old conundrum of who came first the chicken or the egg.

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The more important question has always been, who was the first person to watch a chicken drop something out it's backside and decide they actually wanted to eat it.

 

2 minutes ago, schwermetallschatz666 said:

I think someone has a crush

He's only human!

 

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2 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

decide they actually wanted to eat it

You could say the same thing about a dirty cucumber I suppose. I think people were routinely starving to death for most of our existence. Imagine all the stuff they had to try that didn't end up making the menu long term. It would suck being the one who figured out which mushrooms were poisonous, or that you can't eat the cactus for the water. Cactus = the Devil's cucumber.

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I agree it would suck to be the guinea pig but it could also be some fun, like when you find something absolutely disgusting but try and trick your fellow monkeys into eating it just so they get the same experience!

Considering groups like our (Australia's) native Indigenous communities know and understand a shit load more about food than we do you'd reckon it would make sense to look at stuff growing in the bush and trust it's goodness. Forget about evolution, forget who shit what, trust the foods that these cultures who have survived more than 60k years did. But alas apparently some of us just want to eye off cucumbers! :)

 

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3 hours ago, schwermetallschatz666 said:

I desperately need some sort of community honestly. I am very lonely hahaha but I've done it to myself. 

 

Yes, very over-religious and misguided younger parents (who are not yet 50), one of which was a step parent. No overt physical abuse other than spanking but mentally, I have finally come to terms with the fact that terrorized is an accurate description. Hard to label things like that when they are so normal to you. 

I stay away from Christian shit as much as possible lol but thank you. 

Listening to Dio or Scorpions now is like a balm. Something that's been missing for a long long time. Probably have my hopes set too high on how long it will take me to pick stuff up once I get a guitar but I can't wait to have an excuse to just repetitively drown myself in the music. 

It is always good to know someone understands where you come from. On the outside we were normal church people 😛 

Thank you, I appreciate it. 

Thanks for sharing your story "Difficult Metal Sweetheart." It's a pleasure to have you here and we hope you find some community and have some fun and maybe even learn something in the process. And good luck learning to play your favorite heavy metal songs on the guitar. 

And always keep one eye peeled for an errant devil's cucumber. I hear they can be very prickly.

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13 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Thanks for sharing your story "Difficult Metal Sweetheart." It's a pleasure to have you here and we hope you find some community and have some fun and maybe even learn something in the process. And good luck learning to play your favorite heavy metal songs on the guitar. 

And always keep one eye peeled for an errant devil's cucumber. I hear they can be very prickly.

Ahh google translate fails me again hahaha 

 

thank you for your advice and guidance :) 

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3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I know you were joking, but...

There is no purpose. We all tend to inappropriately personify nature and evolution and it is easy to fall into teleological reasoning.

This is why religious debates generally fall apart. People seem to have trouble accepting that there can be some things that weren't "created" and that don't necessarily have a purpose. Some things just are. The search for meaning continues regardless.

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15 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I know you were joking, but...

There is no purpose. We all tend to inappropriately personify nature and evolution and it is easy to fall into teleological reasoning.

To be fair I wasn't joking. I thought I was cleverly circling back around to an earlier comment which would make it an ouroboros like conversation. It wasn't until I went back and read the original conversation I realised it was different to the way my brain remembered, it.

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On 8/16/2022 at 2:18 PM, schwermetallschatz666 said:

I stay away from Christian shit as much as possible lol but thank you.

It is always good to know someone understands where you come from. On the outside we were normal church people 😛 

Thank you, I appreciate it. 

I think "normal church people" can be very loosely defined.  If by normal you mean the type that is generally recognized by the public for its obvious flaws, bear in mind that those are the people that give other church goers a bad rep, just as one pretentious professor who hates God could make other atheists look bad, which creates stereotypes on both sides.  The majority of church goers I've met in my life never had anything hateful to say about atheists (it was usually complaining about modern politics :P).

NOTE: God's Not Dead is a pretty bad movie.

Nevertheless, I'm very against the notion of blaming anyone for their beliefs, so I refuse to do it at all.  Even as I'm typing this I'm on my third Electric Wizard album of the day just to get closer to perfecting my top 100 metal albums (if EW appears on it at all), and I've more or less recognized modern satanism as just another variant of dumb teenage behavior that likes to get drunk and party with rare instances of cult violence.  In other words, they aren't really devout.

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1 hour ago, Rexorcist said:

 just as one pretentious professor who hates God could make other atheists look bad

 modern satanism as just another variant of dumb teenage behavior that likes to get drunk and party with rare instances of cult violence.  In other words, they aren't really devout.

I feel I must make a few corrections:

First of all, atheists don't "hate god." We are simply people who understand that gods don't exist, because we realize that all gods and religions are merely inventions of primitive bronze and iron age goat herders that couldn't understand or explain the wonderous complexities of the world they lived in, so they resorted to making up supernatural fairy tales. 

There are over 4,000 different gods and religions in the world, every single one of them nothing more than nonsense made up by humans. Atheists are not a "religion" or an organized group and we have no dogma or set of "beliefs." We are not monolithic, we're just random individuals who come from a multitude of backgrounds, and the only things any of us have in common with each other is that we're inhabitants of this planet, and we simply don't happen to believe in any of these thousands of nonsensical supernatural gods, deities or entitiies. Not your god, not Allah, not Yeshua, not Thor or Odin or Zeus, none of them. Not spirits, not demons, not ghosts, not white walkers and certainly not satan.

Now I'm pretty sure that even most religious people share my belief that the vast majority of these 4,000 gods and religions are nothing more than made up nonsense. Many people just feel the need to make an exception for their own personal god which they've been indoctrinated to believe in. But when you get right down to it, atheists simply don't believe in one more god than you don't believe in. But you don't waste your time and energy hating Odin or Zeus do you? How about Apollo or Poseidon? Darth Vader? No, because how can you hate something that doesn't exist?

 

Modern satanism as I understand it is not, as so many people seem to believe, the worship of some fallen angel or evil supernatural entity. It is not a religion the way christianity is a religion. Modern satanists are atheists (which should not be conflated with saying that all atheists are satanists!) and as such they don't actually believe that "satan" exists or that there are any evil supernatural entities, same as they don't believe in any gods, or any good supernatural entities or deities either. "Satan" is metaphorical. "Satan" is just an idea. All of these supernatural entities both good and evil are actually inventions of the god believers. Satanists are vehemently opposed to christianity, so they just picked satan as the entity to use as their symbol because he happens to be the one christians consider to be the enemy of their guy. Literally, the anti-christ. But they don't truly believe he's any more real than your god or any other made up supernatural entity.

Therefore modern satantists can't be "devout" because there are no entities to "worship" and no doctrine or set of beliefs to follow, other than just believing in oneself and rejecting christianity. There are of course plenty of nut jobs in the world who might believe or do any number of wacky insane things in the name of their favorite supernatural entities, and those can include either god or satan. But I'm not talking about them, or the silly rituals and ceremonies that you see in the movies or that they sing about in Electric Wizard songs, or people like the West Memphis 3. I'm talking about mainstream modern secular satanism as I understnd it.

Now to be clear I do not, nor have I ever identified as a satanist myself. Even as I love what they call 'satanic' black metal, it's just music to me and I don't believe any of that satan crap and I have no need for all the symbolism, I think it's all silly. But I must say I can respect other atheists who are rooted in reality more than I can respect or understand any of these deusional supernatural god believer cult types. And that goes for whether they're half naked natives in the jungle sacrificing virgins to their god by tossing them into volcanos, or the wacky scientologists, or muslim suicide bombers, or upstanding first world suburbanites dressed in their fancy clothes singing hyms to jesus in their local houses of worship on the weekends. It's not my job to care what anyone else chooses to believe, unless or until it affects me. But my two cents is, I do believe all these examples I've just given fit the definition of cults, and that any of their followers are all just as sadly deluded as the next. I think they could probably all benefit from a good intervention.

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Modern Satanism shares A great many qualities with ethical egoism assuming you’re referring to the variant touted by Anton LeVay. It’s essentially A loose congregation of folks who think acting upon it appears selfish desires of oneself is how humans want to live unless said desires cross the threshold of being cruel. I guess the modern day equivalent would be living your best life, and of course evil people will do evil things and justify it in any way which makes sense to them so it is important not to tie everyone with the same brush.

I guess the modern day equivalent would be living your best life, and of course evil people will do evil things and justify it in any way which makes sense to them so it is important not to tie everyone with the same brush.

 

As far as religion goes I can’t say I have ever had a positive interaction With someone whose life was driven by their faith, case and point a few years back when one of these people felt compelled to inform me the reason I am blind is that I had not excepted God and so was being righteously punished. I feel like we’re getting very off topic yet though 

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5 minutes ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

As far as religion goes I can’t say I have ever had a positive interaction With someone whose life was driven by their faith, case and point a few years back when one of these people felt compelled to inform me the reason I am blind is that I had not excepted God and so was being righteously punished. I feel like we’re getting very off topic yet though 

I'd argue that there has been many times in your life where you haven't even known you had an interaction with someone whose life is driven by faith. But the few times where you know it to be the case have stood out like dogs balls on a BBQ plate.

 

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24 minutes ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Modern Satanism shares A great many qualities with ethical egoism assuming you’re referring to the variant touted by Anton LeVay. It’s essentially A loose congregation of folks who think acting upon it appears selfish desires of oneself is how humans want to live unless said desires cross the threshold of being cruel. I guess the modern day equivalent would be living your best life, and of course evil people will do evil things and justify it in any way which makes sense to them so it is important not to tar everyone with the same brush.

As far as religion goes I can’t say I have ever had a positive interaction with someone whose life was driven by their faith, case and point a few years back when one of these people felt compelled to inform me the reason I am blind is that I had not excepted God and so was being righteously punished. I feel like we’re getting very off topic yet though 

Is the topic heading "another infant" not a reference to the baby Jesus?

I was not specifically referring to LeVayan satanism because I have not done the basic research that would be required to understand what differentiates his version of satanism from any other version. 

Interesting that you bring up 'the threshold of being cruel.' Seems that even satanists have some version of "the golden rule" which is of course some variation on: "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."

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2 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

I'd argue that there has been many times in your life where you haven't even known you had an interaction with someone whose life is driven by faith. But the few times where you know it to be the case have stood out like dogs balls on a BBQ plate.

 

I think most atheists have no real issue with christians as long as they keep it to themselves and don't hit us over the head with their religious nonsense. It's their own personal business and we can easily and happily ignore it until they slip up and make it our business, like in the example Blivvie gave above. The christian religion really seems to enjoy its ideas about punishment and retribution.

If someone feels compelled to say something that eggregiously offensive (not to mention incredibly stupid) you can't expect the target of that vitriol not to feel a certain way about it, and not to ascribe similar qualiities and motivations to others who make known they belong to the same cult. 

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