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Two related questions about making and posting lists


Rexorcist

Question

OK, first, a little subtext.  On the last metal board I joined, I planned on surprising them with a top 100 metal albums list, and the mod who invited me there from Movieforums said I could maybe get the list featured on another mod's blog.  However, that place isn;t really working out.  The few active people there don't actually wanna talk metal, getting completely off-topic, and the mods don't wanna do anything about it.  So my two questions are simple:

1. Is there a special subforum for posting top 100 lists or lists of any kind?

2. I really doubt this, but is there a Metalforum blog where users can post lists with commentary, and what does it take to get it featured?

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Okay, because I'm lazy and only skimmed through this, let me ask. When people are saying thrash and metal in general has peaked/plateaued are you talking in terms of commercial viability or are you talking in terms of artistic expression? 

I don't think there's any question that metal of any kind has seen it's commercial heyday come and go...and while it's not impossible that it could happen again, I think it's extremely unlikely.

Now has thrash metal seen its artistic peak? Arguably I'd have to say it probably has simply because it's such an explored genre that anything that might be seen as truly innovative would probably have to change the formula so much that it would run the risk of actually becoming something entirely unique. 

As for metal in general, I don't necessarily think that's true from an artistic point. It may not happen in our lifetime, but I don't think you can reasonably dismiss the idea that somewhere down the line someone will come along and do something truly unique again

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2 hours ago, SurgicalBrute said:

Okay, because I'm lazy and only skimmed through this, let me ask. When people are saying thrash and metal in general has peaked/plateaued are you talking in terms of commercial viability or are you talking in terms of artistic expression? 

I don't think there's any question that metal of any kind has seen it's commercial heyday come and go...and while it's not impossible that it could happen again, I think it's extremely unlikely.

Now has thrash metal seen its artistic peak? Arguably I'd have to say it probably has simply because it's such an explored genre that anything that might be seen as truly innovative would probably have to change the formula so much that it would run the risk of actually becoming something entirely unique. 

As for metal in general, I don't necessarily think that's true from an artistic point. It may not happen in our lifetime, but I don't think you can reasonably dismiss the idea that somewhere down the line someone will come along and do something truly unique again

Yes I meant metal's commercial and cultural hey-day. The period of its greatest commercial success and popularity. I wasn't referring to the quality of the music. I understand that these sub-genres all remain alive and well and for me personally I can say that this last 15 years is the best period for new music I've ever experienced in my life. But I am aware that not everyone feels this way and that death and black metal's hey-days were both many years in the past, although not quite as far back as thrash's.

I fully expect that metal will continue to evolve into the future. Possibly in fits and starts, there will surely be down periods when nothing much is happening, but there will periods of artistic splendour as well. Like cockroches you'll never be able to fully eradicate metal. But I don't know with the current state of the music indusry if anything extreme will ever be able to recapture the heights it reached and the magic it had back in its hey-day 25 - 30 years ago. If they ever figure out a way to fully monetize streaming in a way that's fair to all parties involved, who knows maybe metal could one day attain a new hey-day that might even eclipse the previous one. But probably not in my lifetime.

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10 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

So 87 is the hey day of thrash now? Wasn't it 91 before, and maybe 92 before that? Tomorrow it will probably be 85.

I'd say its commercial hey-day lasted from about 1985 until roughly 1990 or possibly '91. So any year in that range works just fine.

Now I'm not saying that's necessarily when it was at its peak creatively, just commercially. You understand that, right?

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2 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

If they ever figure out a way to fully monetize streaming in a way that's fair to all parties involved, who knows maybe metal could one day attain a new hey-day that might even eclipse the previous one. But probably not in my lifetime.

One thing to also keep in mind here is what the next big step in social media might do for metal as a commercial force. I'm not arguing that metal came anywhere near it's heights from the 80's when I say this, but no matter what people may personally feel about metalcore and deathcore, there's no denying those bands were incredibly savvy in the way they used early social media platforms like MySpace to build a fanbase. It was effective enough that, at least for a short time, music labels were willing to put some money behind those bands in order to ride the trend. So there is some precedent that it can happen, but it really would require just the right alignment of something new grabbing a younger generations attention, and metal bands being quick enough to really take advantage of it.

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1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I'd say its commercial hey-day lasted from about 1985 until roughly 1990 or possibly '91. So any year in that range works just fine.

Now I'm not saying that's necessarily when it was at its peak creatively, just commercially. You understand that, right?

I understand nuffink!

I question everyfink!

I vote for '94.

 

Something I don't understand is that yesterday the OP was LightningRide, he even claimed that was his name (as questioned by GG). Now he's Rexorcist. does that mean that Lingthning Ride has his hey day yesterday and tomorrow we'll all be talking about how his first posts were his best and we wont see such a peak of creativity again?

 

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2 minutes ago, SurgicalBrute said:

One thing to also keep in mind here is what the next big step in social media might do for metal as a commercial force. I'm not arguing that metal came anywhere near it's heights from the 80's when I say this, but no matter what people may personally feel about metalcore and deathcore, there's no denying those bands were incredibly savvy in the way they used early social media platforms like MySpace to build a fanbase. It was effective enough that, at least for a short time, music labels were willing to put some money behind those bands in order to ride the trend. So there is some precedent that it can happen, but it really would require just the right alignment of something new grabbing a younger generations attention, and metal bands being quick enough to really take advantage of it.

Problem as I see it, is that back in the 80's you could count the number of metal sub-genres on the fingers of one hand and now both hands wouldn't be nearly enough. Musical trends back then encompassed greater percentages of consumers. Major music labels are inherently profit seeking machines and unless they see some particular trend as widespread and popular enough to have genuine potential to actually make them some real money they're not going to want to take that risk of throwing money away on it. That's why these small independent metal specialty labels have sprang up that seem to be willing to accept much less return on their investment because the majors just aren't interested in samll potatoes extreme metal unless a band has proven itself to be commercially viable. Go sell some albums and then give us a call. They expect every swing to be a home run. It's like the major movie studios, if someone backs a flop that doesn't recoup what they spent to make the film then heads are gonna roll. No one wants to take a chance on anything anymore.

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8 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

I understand nuffink!

I question everyfink!

I vote for '94.

 

Something I don't understand is that yesterday the OP was LightningRider, he even claimed that was his name (as questioned by GG). Now he's ReXorcist. Does that mean that LingthningRider has his hey-day yesterday and tomorrow we'll all be talking about how his first posts were his best and we wont see such a peak of creativity again?

 

 

LightningRiders hey-day was about 4 forums ago. Nothing he was gonna do here could even hope to measure up. That's why he reinvented himself just one day into his residency here. Try to keep up old man.

But no actually he told me the real reason is that KillaKukumba is such a super creative and stupendously awesome handle that you made him feel woefully inadequate with his basic little twist on Ride the Lightning so much so that he had to reevaluate his entire life last night. So today ReXorcist is the kid's attempt to step up his name game into the big leagues.

You know Kuke, it has occurred to me that you could just start listening to black metal full time and become a nihilist. Then you would no longer care that thrash is dead and that its hey-day was so far back as to be but a tiny speck in the rear view mirror barely visible to the naked eye without a super powerful Hubble telescope. Or a time machine. Or maybe some old Polaroids. 

 

Thrashion: '80s thrash metal fashion is having a moment right now. Here's  how you can rock it -

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Are you suggesting I handle my cucumber too much?

Strangely enough the mention of polaroids is quite apt. Yesterday while I was cleaning up my office I found a bunch of photos from my brothers wedding in 97. One of the photos from the following day my dad and I are cooking the BBQ in front of my Bro's garage, nothing to unusual there but in the picture I was wearing the same Slayer t-shirt that I was wearing only a week ago. Maybe thrash isn't dead but I am!

 

18 minutes ago, ReXorcist said:

You're not using Windows XP, are you?

Nah, I'm still on Windows 3.11, no bugs for me!

It's actually the forum server refusing connections once it gets to a certain limit. It remedies itself in anything from 10 minutes to an hour as load drops.

13 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

He has most likely fallen victim to the archaically slow and notoriously fucked up Australian internet.

Moving pretty fast today, that new 28.8k modem is kicking arse!

 

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6 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Are you suggesting I handle my cucumber too much?

Strangely enough the mention of polaroids is quite apt. Yesterday while I was cleaning up my office I found a bunch of photos from my brothers wedding in 97. One of the photos from the following day my dad and I are cooking the BBQ in front of my Bro's garage, nothing to unusual there but in the picture I was wearing the same Slayer t-shirt that I was wearing only a week ago. Maybe thrash isn't dead but I am!

 

I bought a Show No Mercy shirt at MDF a few years ago but I don't like the design on the back so I never wear it except maybe in winter under several other layers. All my old shirts from the 80's and 90's have long since disintegrated into dust and been disposed of.

 

Too much is a relative thing. I like to think I handle mine just the right amount. Would never dream of telling anyone else how they should be handling theirs.

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31 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Problem as I see it, is that back in the 80's you could count the number of metal sub-genres on the fingers of one hand and now both hands wouldn't be nearly enough. Musical trends back then encompassed greater percentages of consumers. Major music labels are inherently profit seeking machines and unless they see some particular trend as widespread and popular enough to have genuine potential to actually make them some real money they're not going to want to take that risk of throwing money away on it. That's why these small independent metal specialty labels have sprang up that seem to be willing to accept much less return on their investment because the majors just aren't interested in samll potatoes extreme metal unless a band has proven itself to be commercially viable. Go sell some albums and then give us a call. They expect every swing to be a home run. It's like the major movie studios, if someone backs a flop that doesn't recoup what they spent to make the film then heads are gonna roll. No one wants to take a chance on anything anymore.

That was my point though...

Those bands use of early social media to grab attention and build a fan base large enough that labels were willing to put money behind them showed it could theoretically be done again. It's proof of concept, even though it was a much smaller scale.

Part of the reason it worked though was because the bands weren't much older than the fans they were engaging with, so they were young enough to be aware of the cultural shift in the way people communicated and take advantage of it. For metal to really take off again though, it would require a lot of different things to converge at just the right time. At the very least, you'd need some combination of:

Something game changing in the social media landscape.

Metal bands with members young enough to be aware of it, in order to take advantage of it

Music that can grab devoted fan base, but would still be palatable enough to spread to a wider audience

Enough bands playing it to sustain it

So like I said before, it's pretty unlikely, but you never know what tomorrows going to bring either

 

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13 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I bought a Show No Mercy shirt at MDF a few years ago but I don't like the design on the back so I never wear it except maybe in winter under several other layers. All my old shirts from the 80's and 90's have long since disintegrated into dust and been disposed of.

 

Too much is a relative thing. I like to think I handle mine just the right amount. Would never dream of telling anyone else how they should be handling theirs.

Many of my old shirts from the 80's and 90's have gone but I did, for no particular reason, keep a number of tour shirts in wearable condition. I'm not sure why I kept all the tour shirts because I also bought the tour books if I wanted something nostalgic but I kept them and only wore them occasionally. Most have faded a bit but are free from holes and still fit despite being old and fat now.

 

 

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