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Re: Mudhoney, I tend to think stuff like this which got played at parties when I was getting into this stuff:

 

 

 

But even their early stuff eg that you played isn't as overtly raw/unrefined as Nirvana's earlier stuff.

 

Having said that they are overtly different to generic grunge, having more overt punk than many others in the scene.

 

28 minutes ago, markm said:

I'm not sure how I feel about grunge really. I liked a lot of the bands but it also gets mixed in with my feelings about alternative rock/metal. And the music is now quite dated. I'll still throw on Dirt or Facelift or Superunknown or  Badmotorfinger but I'm also sort of over those albums at this point except BMF which is one of my favorite albums of all time. Melvins are a different animal to me, but I fucking love Melvins. Peal Jam is boring and flat out suck-they're like the Bruce Springsteen of grunge . I never got into Nirvana in a big way. Actually, it was Nevermind. That album blew up in such a big way that I refused to buy it. But I did get In Utero which I rather liked and yeah, of course they were pivotal.  I think Nirvana was a bigger influence on guys that were younger. I was in my my mid-late 20's rather than, say high school.  I also mash up bands like NIN and Ministry that produced influential albums around the same time or maybe a couple of years later but it all blends into the amorphous early 90's alt metal thing along with way too much airplay from bands like The Smashing Pumpkins and The Offspring. 

 

 

I think it was such a great time in alternative music.  I wish I was a couple of years older (and a white middle class American male) to have experienced it properly at the time (as well as thrash/death scenes). 

-----

EDIT GG that Tad album sounds pretty cool.

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34 minutes ago, markm said:

Peal Jam is boring and flat out suck-they're like the Bruce Springsteen of grunge .

I kept being told I should like them  - way back - but I tried and came to the same conclusion.

 

32 minutes ago, MarkhantonioYeatts said:

As for Sex Pistols, IMO they are probably the most influential rock band of the 1970s along with Black Sabbath."

I do agree with this, even though John Lydon has jumped the shark from witty provocateur to common-or-garden prick.

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2 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I kept being told I should like them  - way back - but I tried and came to the same conclusion.

 

I do agree with this, even though John Lydon has jumped the shark from witty provocateur to common-or-garden prick.

Yeah, Pearl Jam suck the proverbial big one.

 

I thought John had mellowed a bit in 'is old age. 

 

John Lydon & Piers Morgan's life stories johnny rotten

 

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First two Pearl Jam albums are pretty good but they then quickly turned into an arena rock band.

 

Pearl Jam are also the only real survivor from that era.  AIC are around but without Layne Staley.  Other than first reformed album which captured some AIC vibes,the other new albums have got far more in common with Jerry Cantrell's solo work complete with boredom.

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6 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Regardless I think that Seattle scene was pretty incredible.  An isolated minor "secondary city" spawned a very interesting music scene that had major ramifications world wide.

That reminds me, no one has mentioned that most classic and influential of all grunge bands. Queensrÿche!

5 hours ago, markm said:

I never got into Nirvana in a big way. Actually, it was Nevermind. That album blew up in such a big way that I refused to buy it. 

That was exactly my stance. WN will think it hilarious that a nostalgic Priest-worshipping twit like me would think that way, but sometimes things are just too popular and you don't want to be associated with what everyone else thinks is amaze-balls. I have never heard Nevermind - like, the whole album through. I certainly never owned it. 

Was the same with Guns n' Roses in high school. I know it is a good band but just became too popular and I hadn't come to it naturally. I would have been jumping on a bandwagon.

Later on I did have AIC up until Jar of Flies when I lost interest. And Badmotorfinger. In fact I am pretty sure I have it in a box in the garage so I might dig it out today.

Come to think of it, I had a Smashing Pumpkins album. The infinite sadness one which was two CDs but that was too much. 

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All this is just reminding me how young I actually am so cheers for that lads, much needed the day after being told by my adopted niece that I’m so old-fashioned for owning DVDs…

 

As far as they’re not listening to dance because they were too popular it was an entirely different scene going around my high school that I steered clear of, mid 2000s sorry the popular bands if I recall where things like evanescence and LINKIN PARK and I just wasn’t about it.

bands, damn this speech to text sucks.

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9 hours ago, Dead1 said:

First two Pearl Jam albums are pretty good but they then quickly turned into an arena rock band.

 

Pearl Jam are also the only real survivor from that era.  AIC are around but without Layne Staley.  Other than first reformed album which captured some AIC vibes,the other new albums have got far more in common with Jerry Cantrell's solo work complete with boredom.

I agree, Ten and Vs were pretty cool. Ten was a big album for me when I was in... middle school, I guess? I haven't listened to either of them in a very long time but I could probably still sing along. The mix on Vs is great. 

I used to not have much time for Jerry's solo stuff - I felt like it was lacking without Layne's voice up front - but Boggy Depot sort of snuck up on me and now it's one of my go-to rock albums. 

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2 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

I agree, Ten and Vs were pretty cool.

Second that...Ten especially I really liked...with Vs, while I liked it, looking back the wheels were starting to already come off because you can see how Eddie wanted to be a pretentious starving artist, not a rock star

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9 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

That reminds me, no one has mentioned that most classic and influential of all grunge bands. Queensrÿche!

That was exactly my stance. WN will think it hilarious that a nostalgic Priest-worshipping twit like me would think that way, but sometimes things are just too popular and you don't want to be associated with what everyone else thinks is amaze-balls. I have never heard Nevermind - like, the whole album through. I certainly never owned it. 

Was the same with Guns n' Roses in high school. I know it is a good band but just became too popular and I hadn't come to it naturally. I would have been jumping on a bandwagon.

Later on I did have AIC up until Jar of Flies when I lost interest. And Badmotorfinger. In fact I am pretty sure I have it in a box in the garage so I might dig it out today.

Come to think of it, I had a Smashing Pumpkins album. The infinite sadness one which was two CDs but that was too much. 

Haha c'mon dude, I don't think you're a twit! I myself, the coffin huffing, goat fucking crypt keeper own several Judas Priest albums, everything from 1979's Hellbent up through Defenders in '84 which was where I got off the Priest train. I did buy Angel of Retribution 20 years later too, but that's the only one since Defenders. I finally tried Painkiller on Youtube one time just a year or two ago (because I kept hearing how great that one was, which was an outright lie) but I couldn't even make it through half of that shit and I doubt I'll ever have any reason to give it another shot. I had all Priest's 70's albums once upon a time as well, but I traded them all back in within a few years because I just didn't like any of them at all. I don't find many occasions to revisit the mighty Priest anymore as they're just so damn cheesy and I think I might be lactose intolerant. I do have fond memories of them though as their music was a big part of the final year of my teens and my early 20's. I would definitely reach for a Priest album before I'd ever spin a Maiden album though. I don't think that makes anyone a twit if they like those kinds of bands, I know most metalheads revere these bands. To each his own, just not my thing.

Your mates Queensryche on the other hand, like most people I knew I had that first 4-track EP back in the day, but I didn't hold onto it very long. I have long since vowed never again to allow them Queenies to violate my earholes. Yet another band I outright detest, there's just nothing there for me. In fact their very existence offends me, I'm disgusted by them and everything they and their ilk stand for. I hated Pearl Jam too but not nearly to the level of hatred I saved for bands like Queensryche, with Vedder and PJ it was more of a strong dislike.

I did buy Nevermind in '91, or it coulda been '92, but it never found its way into my rotation. I played it a handful of times but I was too obsessed with other stuff at that time like Overkill and Alice in Chains and Slayer and Celtic Frost and Sepultura. So while I liked the band in theory, I never found Nirvana compelling enough to make me take the time out to actually listen to them. I never bought or heard any of their other albums other than whatever songs might've floated their way into my earholes by way of the radio waves.

I was absolutely head over heels with Alice in Chains right from the very beginning though, I bought all their stuff as soon as it came out and I still listen to them regularly. Not every week or anything but much more often than most of my old traditional heavy metal stuff. That whole trad metal genre just hasn't aged well for me. I can remember arguing with these dudes I knew who were huge Van Halen fans in the 80's. VH took Alice in Chains out on tour with them as their opening act in '91/'92 and these dudes gave me their concert review the next time I saw them. They told me Alice was worthless garbage and the crowd had booed them soundly. But I knew they'd say that because honestly these 3 dudes literally liked Van Halen and ONLY Van Halen. I of course being contrary by nature felt compelled to inform them that Alice shits all over Van Halen any day of the week and twice on Sundays, but naturally they weren't buying it. Never understood that I only listen to one band mentality.

I bought Appetite for Destruction very early on in '87 (late in the year but early on in their fame cycle) before they'd become an overnight sensation and music media darlings. I came across the record with the original cover (featuring the illustration of the girl with her titty hanging out) at the record store one day and just bought it on a whim not knowing who or what they were. And I liked it too, listened to it quite a bit for the next couple of years. But by the time Facelift came out in 1990 I was pretty well done with GnR. Never bought anything else of theirs, but I did used to whistle along with Patience when it came on the radio, and I did download that 'Don't You Cry' song when I got my first computer in the late 90's because I always dug the guitar solo.

Could never get into Badmotorfinger. I know a lot of people who'd cite that as their favorite from Soundgarden, but I only liked that one song where Chris was looking California, but feeling Minnesota. Rusty Cage is meh, I could take it or leave it. And believe me I've tried with that album many times over the years but I just find the rest of it to be worthless and boring. The album before that L than L I had found basically unlistenable so I got rid of it. Only the massively popular, chart topping, billion selling, quintupple platinum Superunknown gets played around here, I fucking love that album. I like a couple of tunes off their corporate followup as well, like Blow Up the Outside World and Burden in my Hand but mainly I just listen to Superunknown.

I owned a Smashing Pumpkins album on cassette at some point as well. Not Mellon Collie but one of the earlier ones, the one with Today on it. Still think that's a cool bassline. I liked a few of the radio/MTV songs from Mellon Collie at the time when they blew up in the mid 90's but I never bought it because I always thought a double album would probably be a bit too much Pumpkins for me. The thought of how popular they might have been didn't enter into my decison making process.

You can't worry about bandwagons or go by what's popular and what's not, you've gotta just go by what you think sounds good and you might wanna listen to. You may think it's safe to avoid the super popular bands/albums because most people are idiots and don't know what's good, and 99% of the time that'll turn out to be a good move. But still every now and then even the clueless zombies will stumble onto a good one. 

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Honestly, no reason to lament grunge as it basically morphed into stoner metal and sludge, or at minimum there is overlap. Superunknown has been heralded as an early stoner rock album. Dead brought Melvins into the discussion who obviously have overlap into sludge. I particularly like stoner and sludge with punk/hardcore influence. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

You can't worry about bandwagons or go by what's popular and what's not, you've gotta just go by what you think sounds good and you might wanna listen to. You may think it's safe to avoid the super popular bands/albums because most people are idiots and don't know what's good, and 99% of the time that'll turn out to be a good move. But still every now and then even the clueless zombies will stumble onto a good one. 

Oh, I don't worry about bandwagons. It is just an odd quirk that if it became too popular in high school or uni  I'd veer away from it. With G'N'R, intellectually (ironically) I knew it was decent music but to be contrary I am sure I said at some point "Guns sucks, AC/DC rules!" oh the logic of a 16 year old. Same with Nirvana.

These days bandwagons are much less likely to affect me because I practically don't have a wider peer group to go along with or react against. I live in a silo and don't really engage with the wider zeitgeist (except what I see on TV on mute at the gym across the road) or hang out with work colleagues where I may be exposed to something fashionable. I'd be happy to jump on a bandwagon here on the forum because it would be an endorsement by actual metal fans (and varied at that), rather than becoming popular because it got overplayed on MTV.

I love that you have a burning hatred of Queensryche. I wonder what about their existence so offended you? Perhaps the big hair and a too screamy vocalist. A bad touch by Geoff Tate? Subject matter wise they are fairly benign and they can't be more annoying than Motley Crue.

Trying to wrack my brains for a band that I actively hated/despised. I mentioned hating RHCP, but that was more for effect. They're not so bad. 

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3 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Oh, I don't worry about bandwagons. It is just an odd quirk that if it became too popular in high school or uni  I'd veer away from it. With G'N'R, intellectually (ironically) I knew it was decent music but to be contrary I am sure I said at some point "Guns sucks, AC/DC rules!" oh the logic of a 16 year old. Same with Nirvana.

These days bandwagons are much less likely to affect me because I practically don't have a wider peer group to go along with or react against. I live in a silo and don't really engage with the wider zeitgeist (except what I see on TV on mute at the gym across the road) or hang out with work colleagues where I may be exposed to something fashionable. I'd be happy to jump on a bandwagon here on the forum because it would be an endorsement by actual metal fans (and varied at that), rather than becoming popular because it got overplayed on MTV.

I love that you have a burning hatred of Queensryche. I wonder what about their existence so offended you? Perhaps the big hair and a too screamy vocalist. A bad touch by Geoff Tate? Subject matter wise they are fairly benign and they can't be more annoying than Motley Crue.

Trying to wrack my brains for a band that I actively hated/despised. I mentioned hating RHCP, but that was more for effect. They're not so bad. 

Naturally we all have bands that we don't care for, but I wouldn't say that I really 'hate' that many bands. And it's not a personal hatred against the individual band members or their fans or anything like that, it's just the music and the musical image that the band name represents. The 'Ryche is the antithesis of filth. It's as simple as that.

I've always had trouble understanding the appeal of bands, esecially metal bands, with a super antiseptic, too clean, too slick, too polished, too pretentious, too perfect presentation. I guess for some reason Queensryche just kind of embodies all of that for me. They're like the poster child for sterile pretentious perfection. The pouffy hair and silly outfits had nothing to do with it, I've overlooked that kind of stuff with countless other bands. I always felt like the 'Ryche were up there in their perfect ivory tower completely divorced and out of touch from the rest of us filthy metalheads down here in the trenches, and maybe I perceived a little condescension towards the rest of us. And I didn't like it. But mostly my hate was directed at the awful, lame, sterile music.

Give it to me down and dirty, drag it through the mud, pour it a couple of shots of Jack then smack it around a little bit, put a dent or two in it. I realize Lemmy Kilmister can't front every single 80's band (especially now that he's dead) but most bands seem able to balance the cleanliness with a little grit and I can find a little something to latch onto, but not the 'Ryche. So yeah I would listen to Motley Crue or Bon Jovi or the Chili Peppers all day if it meant I didn't have to listen to a single 'Ryche record. I might even listen to Pantera all day in order to avoid the 'Ryche, and that's saying something. Not that I hate Pantera, I just can't get into their music at all. I've tried, but I hate the note combos DD chose to use in his riffs, and his high pitched solo tone (a pedal maybe?) just irritates the shit outta me. 

But back to the 'Ryche...the whole pretentious concept album thing makes me roll my eyes. I realize I'm in the minority with this take but I hate the very idea of concept albums. Operation Mindcrime? Please. I don't want an album to tell me a story, I just want the music. Was just arguing this recently with a friend. Floyd came up in conversation and I said that I basically liked the 3 Floyd albums from Dark Side through Animals but I did not like their early stuff or The Wall. He started talking about the genius and the concept behind The Wall blah blah blah but you'd think he'd know by now that I don't care about any of that crap, it's all lost on me. Tbh I hadn't even realized The Wall was supposed to be a concept album because who fucking cares? I just want songs I can bang my head to. Dirty nasty filthy ones. Sometimes I think I really am the ultimate philistine. 

Not sure I've ever really experienced the whole peer pressure thing though Jon, at least not as it relates to music and the arts. I'm sure as a young kid I wanted to avoid certain shoes or clothing that weren't 'cool' and might've set me apart for ridicule. But since the time I reached my teenage years I've never felt any pressure to conform to the group, I've always nurtured and relished and taken pride in my nonconfomity. I didn't dye my hair purple or get a face tattoo or anything crazy to set myself apart, but I was always my own man who did my own thing and thunk my own thoughts and spoke my own mind and had my own tastes and I've never looked to my supposed peer group to dictate or approve of my musical choices. I'm not a follower or a joiner by nature. I've always been quite confident that my choices were far superior to any of theirs anyway. I guess this is partly because even as a young kid I'd figured out that most people don't know shit. And also because music is just much too important and much too personal to let anyone else have any creative control whatsoever.

You have to remember, I went to high school at the height of the disco era, in the suburbs of NY which was ground zero for disco. To 'fit in' I would've had to become a plastic disco douche, or there was a smaller clique of kids from the rich end of town by the water who were into hippie bands like the Grateful Dead. There were no other bandwagons to jump on even if I'd have been so inclined. Neither of those choices held any appeal for me in the slightest, so my only real option was to turn my back on all of that nonsense and choose my own course. And I've been doing that ever since.

I wasn't lucky enough to have the experience of going to school in a time after heavy metal had been created nor was I fortunate enough to have a circle of friends and acquaintances to discuss music with like I imagine you Jon and a lot of other people born later than me probably did. As a teen in the 70's I was on my own. At 13 and 14 I had found 3 friends in middle school who were into Sabbath and other hard rock bands like Zeppelin, Aerosmith, AC/DC and Kiss like I was, which was cool, but that was it, just 3. But then in '76 at 15 I became obsessed with the Ramones and those dudes just didn't get it, so from that point on in a high school of 1,500 kids I was literally on my own when it came to music until after I graduated.

There were no portable devices to allow one to listen to their favorite music in public back then anyway besides boom boxes which weren't practical to carry back and forth to school. So until I got a car at 18 and could finally go places on my own like nightclubs where live bands were playing, music was something I mostly indulged in when I was home alone in the privacy of my own room. Funny thing is it's still that way for me 43 years after high school. I have no one here among my real life daily interactions with whom I can share black & death metal or any other non mainstream type of stuff so I listen by myself in private. At least I have you guys and my MDF crew to kick shit around and trade recos with or I'd go crazy.

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1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Naturally we all have bands that we don't care for, but I wouldn't say that I really 'hate' that many bands. And it's not a personal hatred against the individual band members or their fans or anything like that, it's just the music and the musical image that the band name represents. The 'Ryche is the antithesis of filth. It's as simple as that.

I've always had trouble understanding the appeal of bands, esecially metal bands, with a super antiseptic, too clean, too slick, too polished, too pretentious, too perfect presentation. I guess for some reason Queensryche just kind of embodies all of that for me. They're like the poster child for sterile pretentious perfection. The pouffy hair and silly outfits had nothing to do with it, I've overlooked that kind of stuff with countless other bands. I always felt like the 'Ryche were up there in their perfect ivory tower completely divorced and out of touch from the rest of us filthy metalheads down here in the trenches, and maybe I perceived a little condescension towards the rest of us. And I didn't like it. But mostly my hate was directed at the awful, lame, sterile music.

Give it to me down and dirty, drag it through the mud, pour it a couple of shots of Jack then smack it around a little bit, put a dent or two in it. I realize Lemmy Kilmister can't front every single 80's band (especially now that he's dead) but most bands seem able to balance the cleanliness with a little grit and I can find a little something to latch onto, but not the 'Ryche. So yeah I would listen to Motley Crue or Bon Jovi or the Chili Peppers all day if it meant I didn't have to listen to a single 'Ryche record. I might even listen to Pantera all day in order to avoid the 'Ryche, and that's saying something. Not that I hate Pantera, I just can't get into their music at all. I've tried, but I hate the note combos DD chose to use in his riffs, and his high pitched solo tone (a pedal maybe?) just irritates the shit outta me. 

But back to the 'Ryche...the whole pretentious concept album thing makes me roll my eyes. I realize I'm in the minority with this take but I hate the very idea of concept albums. Operation Mindcrime? Please. I don't want an album to tell me a story, I just want the music. Was just arguing this recently with a friend. Floyd came up in conversation and I said that I basically liked the 3 Floyd albums from Dark Side through Animals but I did not like their early stuff or The Wall. He started talking about the genius and the concept behind The Wall blah blah blah but you'd think he'd know by now that I don't care about any of that crap, it's all lost on me. Tbh I hadn't even realized The Wall was supposed to be a concept album because who fucking cares? I just want songs I can bang my head to. Dirty nasty filthy ones. Sometimes I think I really am the ultimate philistine. 

Not sure I've ever really experienced the whole peer pressure thing though Jon, at least not as it relates to music and the arts. I'm sure as a young kid I wanted to avoid certain shoes or clothing that weren't 'cool' and might've set me apart for ridicule. But since the time I reached my teenage years I've never felt any pressure to conform to the group, I've always nurtured and relished and taken pride in my nonconfomity. I didn't dye my hair purple or get a face tattoo or anything crazy to set myself apart, but I was always my own man who did my own thing and thunk my own thoughts and spoke my own mind and had my own tastes and I've never looked to my supposed peer group to dictate or approve of my musical choices. I'm not a follower or a joiner by nature. I've always been quite confident that my choices were far superior to any of theirs anyway. I guess this is partly because even as a young kid I'd figured out that most people don't know shit. And also because music is just much too important and much too personal to let anyone else have any creative control whatsoever.

You have to remember, I went to high school at the height of the disco era, in the suburbs of NY which was ground zero for disco. To 'fit in' I would've had to become a plastic disco douche, or there was a smaller clique of kids from the rich end of town by the water who were into hippie bands like the Grateful Dead. There were no other bandwagons to jump on even if I'd have been so inclined. Neither of those choices held any appeal for me in the slightest, so my only real option was to turn my back on all of that nonsense and choose my own course. And I've been doing that ever since.

I wasn't lucky enough to have the experience of going to school in a time after heavy metal had been created nor was I fortunate enough to have a circle of friends and acquaintances to discuss music with like I imagine you Jon and a lot of other people born later than me probably did. As a teen in the 70's I was on my own. At 13 and 14 I had found 3 friends in middle school who were into Sabbath and other hard rock bands like Zeppelin, Aerosmith, AC/DC and Kiss like I was, which was cool, but that was it, just 3. But then in '76 at 15 I became obsessed with the Ramones and those dudes just didn't get it, so from that point on in a high school of 1,500 kids I was literally on my own when it came to music until after I graduated.

There were no portable devices to allow one to listen to their favorite music in public back then anyway besides boom boxes which weren't practical to carry back and forth to school. So until I got a car at 18 and could finally go places on my own like nightclubs where live bands were playing, music was something I mostly indulged in when I was home alone in the privacy of my own room. Funny thing is it's still that way for me 43 years after high school. I have no one here among my real life daily interactions with whom I can share black & death metal or any other non mainstream type of stuff so I listen by myself in private. At least I have you guys and my MDF crew to kick shit around and trade recos with or I'd go crazy.

....I thought your street name, back in the day, was "Disco Douche".....it wasn't until after you started sporting concho belts and bronto-boots, that you became the "Turquoise Pooftar"....

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On 8/5/2022 at 7:38 PM, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Was just arguing this recently with a friend. Floyd came up in conversation and I said that I basically liked the 3 Floyd albums from Dark Side through Animals but I did not like their early stuff or The Wall. He started talking about the genius and the concept behind The Wall blah blah blah but you'd think he'd know by now that I don't care about any of that crap, it's all lost on me. Tbh I hadn't even realized The Wall was supposed to be a concept album because who fucking cares? I just want songs I can bang my head to. Dirty nasty filthy ones. Sometimes I think I really am the ultimate philistine. 

Most Pink Floyd albums are concept albums to some degree or another. Certainly Wish You Were Here and Animals are.

But if as a listener you don't care, of course it does not matter. Not quite sure how one escapes noticing the fact that The Wall is a concept album though. It is strung together by spoken word bits/sound effects in between songs which flesh out the story. I'd not say The Wall is genius, but it is well put together. When you have a budget like Pink Floyd did at the time, may as well use it.

I remember my mum getting irate at me because I was singing aloud "and that one looks Jewish, and that one's a coon, who let all this riff raff into the rooooom!" good times.

I think I always liked concept albums because it was an opportunity to get deeper into the liner notes/lyrics. A dimension beyond the music and a further talking point/hook. Some artists do concept well - others not so much.

Now, to make this relevant to grunge, Mellon Collie was a concept album I think although no idea what it was about, so that was one which, while I owned the CD, never bothered to delve into.

I can't defend The Ryche though. You're probably right that they are a bit sterile. I have not listened to them for years. It only came up as a joke because they are from Seattle. 

Dimebag utilised a pitch shifter pedal in many of his solos. It is kind of like a wah but modulates the pitch, rather than the tone, in real time. Just an extra spice/trick to use.

From a guitarist's perspective Dimebag did bring something fresh/new to the art. Not quite sure who would qualify as achieving that level in 2000s/2010s/2020s. There must be a million you tube guitarists that can play at a million miles an hour, but not doing anything new style-wise.

 

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8 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Now, to make this relevant to grunge, Mellon Collie was a concept album I think although no idea what it was about, so that was one which, while I owned the CD, never bothered to delve into.

It kind of was, but it kind of wasn't, either

Quote

The songs of Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness are intended to hang together conceptually, with the two halves of the album representing day and night. Despite this, Corgan has rejected the term concept album to describe it, and it was at the time described as more "loose" and "vague" than the band's previous records. However, Billy Corgan has also said that the album is based on "the human condition of mortal sorrow". Corgan aimed the album's message at people aged 14 to 24 years, hoping "to sum up all the things I felt as a youth but was never able to voice articulately." He summed up by stating, "I'm waving goodbye to me in the rear view mirror, tying a knot around my youth and putting it under the bed."

 

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6 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Most Pink Floyd albums are concept albums to some degree or another. Certainly Wish You Were Here and Animals are.

But if as a listener you don't care, of course it does not matter. Not quite sure how one escapes noticing the fact that The Wall is a concept album though. It is strung together by spoken word bits/sound effects in between songs which flesh out the story. I'd not say The Wall is genius, but it is well put together. When you have a budget like Pink Floyd did at the time, may as well use it.

I remember my mum getting irate at me because I was singing aloud "and that one looks Jewish, and that one's a coon, who let all this riff raff into the rooooom!" good times.

I think I always liked concept albums because it was an opportunity to get deeper into the liner notes/lyrics. A dimension beyond the music and a further talking point/hook. Some artists do concept well - others not so much.

Now, to make this relevant to grunge, Mellon Collie was a concept album I think although no idea what it was about, so that was one which, while I owned the CD, never bothered to delve into.

I can't defend The Ryche though. You're probably right that they are a bit sterile. I have not listened to them for years. It only came up as a joke because they are from Seattle. 

Dimebag utilised a pitch shifter pedal in many of his solos. It is kind of like a wah but modulates the pitch, rather than the tone, in real time. Just an extra spice/trick to use.

From a guitarist's perspective Dimebag did bring something fresh/new to the art. Not quite sure who would qualify as achieving that level in 2000s/2010s/2020s. There must be a million you tube guitarists that can play at a million miles an hour, but not doing anything new style-wise.

 

I had no idea Mellon Collie was a concept album either, but like The Wall I never owned either of those albums. I just heard the songs from them on the radio in Floyd's case and on MTV in the Pumpkins' case. Basically everyone had The Wall album back then at the time. I remember the dude across the hall in college playing both the first Van Halen album and Umma Gumma every single day cranked to the max with the door wide open, but then he'd play other Floyd albums too. He liked Floyd.

The Wall actually didn't come out until November of my first semester there (which had started in late August) but by Christmas break all we were hearing on the radio was: We don't need no education (can't have any pudding if you don't beat your meat) and our open door policy neighbor being a Floyd fanboi bought it so I have definitely heard it. (3 good songs amidst a big load of bollocks)

And of course I had to endure the usual pop rock bullshit they drummed into our brains: muh-muh-muh My Sharona, It's Still R&R to Me, Doctor Doctor Gimme the News, Take a look at my girlfriend she's the only one I got, she really holds me tyyyyyyyght, Don't Bring Me Down no no no no nuhohoh, I like the nightlife baby, Have you heard about the Lonesome Loser, Message in a Bottle, and go get yourselves some Cheap Sunglasses. Oh yeah and that awful Zeppelin song All of My Love. It was a weird year I spent in pop-rock land because none of the 3 of us had a stereo at school. Or not until someone brought an 8-track player back with them the 2nd semester that he had "found" along with a case of about 20 (mostly shitty) 8-track tapes. Dudes up on the 3rd floor had a turntable and even owned some Scorpions and Priest and AC/DC and Floyd and a blacklight too, so we spent some time up there expanding our minds.

Oh and I wouldn't ever associate Smashing Pumpkins with grunge, they were early alt rock in my mind. Grunge is a lot like NWOBHM in that if you weren't from the right place you must be excluded. Calling the Pumpkins grunge would be like trying to say Accept were NWOBHM. Pumpkins were a Chicago band I believe, not Seattle. Not grunge. Although they were basically from the correct time period with first album out in '91.

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