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I am touched by what Metal has become


Plantpot
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Just to let you know.  I first saw Black Sabbath in 1972 at the local Civic Hall for 80 pence. They were the first band I saw and were like a local band with a recent hit single. I loved the sound and saw them four times.  Once Van Halen were the support act. As well there is a story that one of Metallica founders came to Stourbridge not far from where I lived and was inspired by the band Diamond Head. The manager of Diamond head used to go to my local wine bar in Wolverhampton.
 
I remember well at the time older members of families saying “oh they won’t last”.  As well, Robert Plant used to go to the clubs in my local town and I remember a family member of a particular family saying “oh yes these so called musicians with their so called musical instruments.” Zeppelin was seen as more hard rock by some but still relevant to what I want to say. As well this was the time of progressive rock and some prog rock fans were a bit snooty when comparing Sabbath to the of course prog rock bands. Also some not all folkies  (fans of folk music were a bit snooty towards heavy metal and hard rock) For some Led Zeppelin were regarded as prog rock and I remember the comment well Zeppelin are good Sabbath are trashy.  I like all kinds of music so would not call myself a total metal head but have always loved Sabbath and the occasional track by other bands, e.g Metallica Sepultura.  I saw the film of Sabbaths last concert at the local arts centre and for a couple of days was floating on the genius of their riffs!  However I knew the genre had spread but not to the extent I am discovering on the internet. It is like the World Wide Web of metal.  I am so in awe, touched and fascinated by it all and the fact that the music that was said to be trashy and would not last has lasted and gone so worldly and diverse.  The range of metal bands include:  Death Metal, Symphonic Metal, Folk Metal, African Metal, Sitar Metal, Chinese Metal,  Mongolian Metal, Ambient Metal (yes ambient metal ) Japanese Metal, Baby Metal, Caribbean Metal, Doom Metal, Christian Metal, Nu Metal, Industrial Metal, Metal yoga, Belly dancing metal and more.
 
As well I went to the first Home of Metal conference which was local. It was attended by academics. I mean “Did it all cum frum Brum” translation (the question to ask would be did this fluid genre originate from Birmimgham )
 
 
Should we have an Anthropological definition?
 
heavy metal “is a contested and controversial marker of both cultural resistance and subcultural conformity, offering a resource that enables individualized identity formation and collective practices” (Kahn-Harris, 2011: 209).
 
Or should we have a Post Modern perspective? 
 
Could we say Brum planted the seed and now the post modern bit that is the rhizome seed concept (it changes and goes places and grows and changes)
 
Or
 
Rebecca Day, Lecturer in Music Analysis, writes "within music criticism, postmodernism is seen to represent a conscious move away from the perceptibly damaging hegemony of binaries such as aestheticism/formalism, subject/object, unity/disunity.
 
Lol!
 
Whatever‼ the reason I am writing this is that a I am touched by how it has all grown and expanded given it was so put down when I was young. It is weird how far it has all gone. As well I am on such a learning curve!
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Welcome to the forums, and yes you do indeed have a lot (40 years worth) of metal to discover! It's kind of fascinating to think that there was a time when all this, which we do kind of take for granted, was nothing more then assorted fragments in individual musicians/genres skill-set. Distorted guitars from Dick Dale, non-conventional and fast (some may even call them blast beats) from Gene Krupa and the jazz-genre, and (perhaps this is a stretch) raw, emotionally resonant, and not necessarily cleancut vocals from afroamerican soul, jazz and blues. Bring it all together and you have the embryo of metal.

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1 hour ago, Sheol said:

Welcome to the forums, and yes you do indeed have a lot (40 years worth) of metal to discover! It's kind of fascinating to think that there was a time when all this, which we do kind of take for granted, was nothing more then assorted fragments in individual musicians/genres skill-set. Distorted guitars from Dick Dale, non-conventional and fast (some may even call them blast beats) from Gene Krupa and the jazz-genre, and (perhaps this is a stretch) raw, emotionally resonant, and not necessarily cleancut vocals from afroamerican soul, jazz and blues. Bring it all together and you have the embryo of metal.

 

Hi Sheol

Thanks for your reply
 

Yes I only discovered last year who Gene Krupa was and that he was one of Bill Wards major influences. I will look up Dick Dale.

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On 1/10/2022 at 5:26 PM, Plantpot said:
Just to let you know.  I first saw Black Sabbath in 1972 at the local Civic Hall for 80 pence. They were the first band I saw and were like a local band with a recent hit single. I loved the sound and saw them four times.  Once Van Halen were the support act. As well there is a story that one of Metallica founders came to Stourbridge not far from where I lived and was inspired by the band Diamond Head. The manager of Diamond head used to go to my local wine bar in Wolverhampton.
 
I remember well at the time older members of families saying “oh they won’t last”.  As well, Robert Plant used to go to the clubs in my local town and I remember a family member of a particular family saying “oh yes these so called musicians with their so called musical instruments.” Zeppelin was seen as more hard rock by some but still relevant to what I want to say. As well this was the time of progressive rock and some prog rock fans were a bit snooty when comparing Sabbath to the of course prog rock bands. Also some not all folkies  (fans of folk music were a bit snooty towards heavy metal and hard rock) For some Led Zeppelin were regarded as prog rock and I remember the comment well Zeppelin are good Sabbath are trashy.  I like all kinds of music so would not call myself a total metal head but have always loved Sabbath and the occasional track by other bands, e.g Metallica Sepultura.  I saw the film of Sabbaths last concert at the local arts centre and for a couple of days was floating on the genius of their riffs!  However I knew the genre had spread but not to the extent I am discovering on the internet. It is like the World Wide Web of metal.  I am so in awe, touched and fascinated by it all and the fact that the music that was said to be trashy and would not last has lasted and gone so worldly and diverse.  The range of metal bands include:  Death Metal, Symphonic Metal, Folk Metal, African Metal, Sitar Metal, Chinese Metal,  Mongolian Metal, Ambient Metal (yes ambient metal ) Japanese Metal, Baby Metal, Caribbean Metal, Doom Metal, Christian Metal, Nu Metal, Industrial Metal, Metal yoga, Belly dancing metal and more.
 
As well I went to the first Home of Metal conference which was local. It was attended by academics. I mean “Did it all cum frum Brum” translation (the question to ask would be did this fluid genre originate from Birmimgham )
 
 
Should we have an Anthropological definition?
 
heavy metal “is a contested and controversial marker of both cultural resistance and subcultural conformity, offering a resource that enables individualized identity formation and collective practices” (Kahn-Harris, 2011: 209).
 
Or should we have a Post Modern perspective? 
 
Could we say Brum planted the seed and now the post modern bit that is the rhizome seed concept (it changes and goes places and grows and changes)
 
Or
 
Rebecca Day, Lecturer in Music Analysis, writes "within music criticism, postmodernism is seen to represent a conscious move away from the perceptibly damaging hegemony of binaries such as aestheticism/formalism, subject/object, unity/disunity.
 
Lol!
 
Whatever‼ the reason I am writing this is that a I am touched by how it has all grown and expanded given it was so put down when I was young. It is weird how far it has all gone. As well I am on such a learning curve!

It's amazing you saw them back in the day. There music was very different I'm guessing so can imagine the backlash.before I was born so just guessing

Its pretty amazing to think that this probably started after Tony iomi's work injury and that work mate mentioned Django Reinhardt not having all his fingers but still being amazing. Would metal have happened without iommi changing his style to play after the injury.  

 

Don't forget funeral doom.classic genre in which skepticism play.  Never thought I'd say metal band and tuxedos in same sentence 😁

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Hi

Thanks for your reply. Yes the music was so new at the time as well there was perhaps more of a generation gap at the end of the sixties. I met a music teacher I know recently and I was surprised she recommended me to listen to symphonic metal. I did and I liked it more than I thought I would. While looking it up I encountered Operatic metal phew! Where does it end. Operatic metal have great vocalists.

 

Yes I will look up funeral.doom thanks

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I'm likely not quite as old as the OP because I only turned 11 in 1972 so I was still in elementary school and was not yet old enough to be going off on my own to Black Sabbath concerts 'n shit. Don't think I even discovered 'heavy music' like Zeppelin and Sabbath from the older kids on the block til the following year, 7th grade.

I think by rights I should still probably be on his side of the metal generation gap, yet somehow I ended up on the other side. Almost everyone I know who's around my age (60) or older listens to either the 60's and 70's "classic" rock bands they grew up with or sometimes they're weirdos who tolerate no hard rock/metal/punk at all. And if by chance I do run into a fellow boomer who's into 'metal' usually it'll primarily be 80's bands or bands who've adopted a similar 80's metal style and maybe a few other newer bands who still use mainly clean vox. Even the OP listed all those metal sub-genres but of course there was no black metal among them. Almost everyone I've met who shares a similar taste to mine in extreme black & death metal filth & grime turns out to be 10 to 15 years younger than me, born in the 70's or sometimes even the 80's.

Even my oldest and dearest friend from school who listened to music with me almost daily from the age of 15 up until we were 31 when he suddenly moved away to Nashville chasing a chick, and we went our separate ways socially & musically. Now almost 30 years later that chick's been gone for over 20 years, he's been back up north for over a decade now and he considers Nightwish, Overkill and Wardruna to be his 3 favorite metal bands in that order. Dragged me out to Brooklyn to see Jinjer recently, some female fronted Ukranian djent band he discovered on YT during the pandemic that I was not aware of and had zero interest in seeing.

He will sometimes seem to be mildly interested when I play melodic black metal that has some folk in it, but the real filth leaves him cold. So nowadays when we get together occasionally I'll find myself playing mostly the older 70's & 80's stuff that we used to have in common just to be considerate. In much the same way I used to have to take care to avoid all the extreme filth and black metal when I was in the car with the family and stick to stuff with clean vox.

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On 1/10/2022 at 12:26 PM, Plantpot said:
Just to let you know.  I first saw Black Sabbath in 1972 at the local Civic Hall for 80 pence. They were the first band I saw and were like a local band with a recent hit single. I loved the sound and saw them four times.  Once Van Halen were the support act. As well there is a story that one of Metallica founders came to Stourbridge not far from where I lived and was inspired by the band Diamond Head. The manager of Diamond head used to go to my local wine bar in Wolverhampton.
 
I remember well at the time older members of families saying “oh they won’t last”.  As well, Robert Plant used to go to the clubs in my local town and I remember a family member of a particular family saying “oh yes these so called musicians with their so called musical instruments.” Zeppelin was seen as more hard rock by some but still relevant to what I want to say. As well this was the time of progressive rock and some prog rock fans were a bit snooty when comparing Sabbath to the of course prog rock bands. Also some not all folkies  (fans of folk music were a bit snooty towards heavy metal and hard rock) For some Led Zeppelin were regarded as prog rock and I remember the comment well Zeppelin are good Sabbath are trashy.  I like all kinds of music so would not call myself a total metal head but have always loved Sabbath and the occasional track by other bands, e.g Metallica Sepultura.  I saw the film of Sabbaths last concert at the local arts centre and for a couple of days was floating on the genius of their riffs!  However I knew the genre had spread but not to the extent I am discovering on the internet. It is like the World Wide Web of metal.  I am so in awe, touched and fascinated by it all and the fact that the music that was said to be trashy and would not last has lasted and gone so worldly and diverse.  The range of metal bands include:  Death Metal, Symphonic Metal, Folk Metal, African Metal, Sitar Metal, Chinese Metal,  Mongolian Metal, Ambient Metal (yes ambient metal ) Japanese Metal, Baby Metal, Caribbean Metal, Doom Metal, Christian Metal, Nu Metal, Industrial Metal, Metal yoga, Belly dancing metal and more.
 
As well I went to the first Home of Metal conference which was local. It was attended by academics. I mean “Did it all cum frum Brum” translation (the question to ask would be did this fluid genre originate from Birmimgham )
 
 
Should we have an Anthropological definition?
 
heavy metal “is a contested and controversial marker of both cultural resistance and subcultural conformity, offering a resource that enables individualized identity formation and collective practices” (Kahn-Harris, 2011: 209).
 
Or should we have a Post Modern perspective? 
 
Could we say Brum planted the seed and now the post modern bit that is the rhizome seed concept (it changes and goes places and grows and changes)
 
Or
 
Rebecca Day, Lecturer in Music Analysis, writes "within music criticism, postmodernism is seen to represent a conscious move away from the perceptibly damaging hegemony of binaries such as aestheticism/formalism, subject/object, unity/disunity.
 
Lol!
 
Whatever‼ the reason I am writing this is that a I am touched by how it has all grown and expanded given it was so put down when I was young. It is weird how far it has all gone. As well I am on such a learning curve!

Plantpot, I can relate as I don't really consider myself culturally a "metalhead", but I've been listening to some sort of hard rock, punk or metal since the the late 70's. I didn't really start listening to Zeppelin and Sabbath until I was into high school in the early 80's though preferring AC/DC and Judas Priest and so on. 

I started exploring the 'net loading up an Ipod in the early 2000's and then headphone and stereo gear around 2012 and there has been an explosion of styles and genres that have proliferated here in the metalverse. There's a lot of fun to be had with an open mind. It's nutty. 

Just now, markm said:

Plantpot, I can relate as I don't really consider myself culturally a "metalhead", but I've been listening to some sort of hard rock, punk or metal since the the late 70's. I didn't really start listening to Zeppelin and Sabbath until I was into high school in the early 80's though preferring AC/DC and Judas Priest and so on. I was really an 80's kid in terms of actual traditional metal. 

I started exploring the 'net loading up an Ipod in the early 2000's and then headphone and stereo gear around 2012 and there has been an explosion of styles and genres that have proliferated here in the metalverse. There's a lot of fun to be had with an open mind. It's nutty. 

 

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Hi markm

Thank for your post. Yes I sometimes think this is crazy in a good way as to how it has all expanded. I will remember the word metalverse!

I love Hildegard Von Bingen which is spiritual music by a thirteenth century nun which relaxes me. A while ago I was listening to ambient metal by Sunn O)) which relaxed me.  Maybe it shows loudness and softness can have the same effect depending on how it is created??

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On 1/17/2022 at 9:31 AM, Plantpot said:

Hi

Thanks for your reply. Yes the music was so new at the time as well there was perhaps more of a generation gap at the end of the sixties. I met a music teacher I know recently and I was surprised she recommended me to listen to symphonic metal. I did and I liked it more than I thought I would. While looking it up I encountered Operatic metal phew! Where does it end. Operatic metal have great vocalists.

 

Yes I will look up funeral.doom thanks

Yes good to hear from you. Skepticism  album companion  I like of the funeral doom genre and you may like it also especially the effective use of an organ and orchestra bits. Calla or swan and the raven you may like can't vouch for the singing. 😂

 

What bands are operatic metal. Is that nightwish, epica, within temptation. Not heard about this.  

One thing I like about the few black Sabbath songs I've heard is that they are not all that jolly. I can relate to them more than a pop song which I nearly always want to switch off 😁

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I would call those band symphonic metal but they do employ operatic singing. You'll find people that love what they consider legit underground death and black metal generally despise symphonic metal for it's slick sound.  It's on the high end of melodic, and power metal being very accessible, clean sounding and often over produced. In other words, it lacks the rougher, raw edge a lot of metal fans prefer. But I like some of it on occasion. It can be super cheesy and over the top in it's hooks, some of it verging on simply being euro pop. But the bombast and catchiness can be fun. 

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On 1/18/2022 at 8:40 AM, Dead1 said:

I agree with the notion metal is both cultural resistance and subcultural conformity.

In some ways it is slightly religious or cult like in tone.

Yep. Sure. If that is what you (general you, not you in particular) want. Or not.

Following a sporting team -  like, I I dunno, the Parramatta Eels - can be much the same. Or not...

39 minutes ago, markm said:

But the bombast and catchiness can be fun. 

For a track or two.

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/22/2022 at 9:19 PM, Plantpot said:

Hi thanks for the reply.

I searched for some funeral doom and gave it a listen. Yes more variation. I quite like some of it. Operatic metal is a phrase I have come across while listening to symphonic metal.

 

Good to hear from you plant pot. If you like operatic metal  AVE Maria 2 by deha I think you'd like. It mixes beautiful female operatic soprano vocals with some light funeral doom. So beautiful and pained at the same time. I connect with this more than the original. Schubert would be pleased with a contemporary release I'm sure. Who's your favourite operatic metal band?  

I was right epica are in operatic metal😁 

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