Jump to content

Why some people like (,or dislike) Nu metal?


DirtyParadox

Recommended Posts

36 minutes ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Lol GG the Gatekeeper? Dude no one is saying you can’t listen to whatever you like. Guess I missed the memo which said liking metal meant blindly listening to everything even loosely related to it.

 

You want to play the innovation card? Ok but Fantomas, Strapping Young Lad, Edge of Sanity, and Emperor all did far more to advance heavy music than adding some hip hop elements to simple down tuned chugs. Eclectic taste? Please I’ve been awake an hour and already ran the gauntlet from classical to sludge, blues to avant-garde, so don’t mistake anyone’s taste for elitism.

Believe me it's not that deep for me. No worries. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So why accuse someone of being elitist in the first place? Why make a big show of your ‘open-minded’ and ‘eclectic’ taste? To me that certainly implies this is something you feel strongly about. You can, I’m sure, understand how someone would reach that conclusion right? At any rate I’m in a combative mood, so I’m also going to point out that 1. The less emotive, and more reasoned case for why most of us don’t consider nu-metal worth listening to have already been made, and 2. it’s counter-productive to single out one individual from the majority opinion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Skittler said:

Good to see you're keeping metal gatekeeping and elitsim alive and only further proving what I said. You sound like an old man yelling at air about anything you don't consider "metal". A personal preferences to validate hating a genre is your choice but personally I am pretty open minded. I love when genres evolve and do different things. I can't imagine how much you probably hate Metalcore 😄. My taste is eclectic and I listen to all types of genres from Witch House, Synth Punk, Metal, Synthwave, Rock and I'll even do Trap and Hyperpop so I can respect all styles. Putting myself into a single box when it comes to a hobby I suppose to enjoy or hating other genres I don't deem worthy seems pretty foolish.

Nu Metal is suppose to be fun. It's 'jump da fuck' up music used for hype. When I workout it's perfect, when I played sports in school I listened to it. Don't overthink the genre guys. 

Dude first of all, you should always listen to whatever floats your boat, no matter what anyone else thinks of it. Whether it's metal or not metal or electronic or hip-hop or whatever else it might be. I couldn't possibly care any less what you or anyone else listens to, I don't even know you. And I'm not trying to talk you or anyone else into changing their listening habits or put anyone in a box. You do you bruv. If you like that nu-shit then feel free to 'jump da fuq up' all day and all night til you've got no more jump left in you. More power to you bro, knock yourself out as they say. I'm not the music police and I'm not on some elitist/purist crusade to eradicate all the sub-genres I don't like. Live and let live.

What I am though, is sick and tired of hearing various versions of "you just hate it because it's popular" for the last 40 fucking years, because that's got nothing to do with why we hate stuff. No matter how many times I hear or see that I cannot refrain from responding. I hate stuff that I think sounds like ass, (yes that would most certainly include metalcore) whether or not it might happen to be popular. That's it, that's all it is. Plenty of unknown, obscure, esoteric shit that I hate just as much as I hate trendy plastic shit. No one else needs to agree with me that something sounds like ass, that's entirely up to the individual listener. But I would be willing to bet there do exist sub-genres of music that you detest as well. Nobody likes everything, or at least I haven't run into anyone yet and my time is running out. The main thrust of my post was to address the motivations behind why we don't like your silly little cringe 'jump da fuq up' sub-genre, more than it was just a random excuse to trash nu-metal on a Sunday night. (Like I'd actually need an excuse)

I make no apologies for being a card-carrying elitist snob. None whatsoever. But I really don't think we're overthinking the genre as you put it. I'm definitely not overthinking nu-metal, because fortunately for me I was already far too old to be part of the target 12 - 24 demographic that shit was being marketed to in its hey-day back in the mid to late 90's. I'd been out of school 15 years and had a wife and kid already in '94 when the first Korn record dropped kicking off nu-metal summer. So I was one of the lucky ones who missed most of that trendy nu-metal nonsense. And except for the very biggest household name acts which I probably saw on MTV or wherever, the rest of those lesser known fly-by-night nu-bands never even registered as a blip on my old man radar. I haven't ever heard more than a song or two from most of those trendy 90's nu-bands, not even the biggies. And that was 25 going on 30 years ago now at this point so you might not even believe how little time I spend thinking about that sub-genre.

I will say I think you're being overly defensive because you're clearly hyper-sensitive to what others think of your music choices. You've gotta let those insecurities go and find a way to get past that petty shit man. Don't get all wrapped up worrying about what anyone else thinks of the music you enjoy. I can't even imagine being fussed because someone I don't even know has voiced their opinion which maybe shits on a band or a sub-genre I happen to really like. So what? Shittting on bands we believe with all our hearts to be inferior is what metalheads have been doing since Tony Iommi hit that first tritone way back in 1970. Because everyone's a critic at heart. And believe me, plenty of my fellow old men metalhead peers love to carry on that tradition and enjoy shitting all over the music that means the most to me. But that's cool because who fucking cares what anyone else thinks? We're all entitled to our opinions, and you can't take any of this "your band sucks" shit personally. I'm the one who has to listen to it, not them. And anyway since the very beginning of my musical journey all those millennia ago I've always looked at it as if the normie mainstreamers don't hate my music then I must be doing something wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Dude first of all, you should always listen to whatever floats your boat, no matter what anyone else thinks of it. Whether it's metal or not metal or electronic or hip-hop or whatever else it might be. I couldn't possibly care any less what you or anyone else listens to, I don't even know you. And I'm not trying to talk you or anyone else into changing their listening habits or put anyone in a box. You do you bruv. If you like that nu-shit then feel free to 'jump da fuq up' all day and all night til you've got no more jump left in you. More power to you bro, knock yourself out as they say. I'm not the music police and I'm not on some elitist/purist crusade to eradicate all the sub-genres I don't like. Live and let live.

What I am though, is sick and tired of hearing various versions of "you just hate it because it's popular" for the last 40 fucking years, because that's got nothing to do with why we hate stuff. No matter how many times I hear or see that I cannot refrain from responding. I hate stuff that I think sounds like ass, (yes that would most certainly include metalcore) whether or not it might happen to be popular. That's it, that's all it is. Plenty of unknown, obscure, esoteric shit that I hate just as much as I hate trendy plastic shit. No one else needs to agree with me that something sounds like ass, that's entirely up to the individual listener. But I would be willing to bet there do exist sub-genres of music that you detest as well. Nobody likes everything, or at least I haven't run into anyone yet and my time is running out. The main thrust of my post was to address the motivations behind why we don't like your silly little cringe 'jump da fuq up' sub-genre, more than it was just a random excuse to trash nu-metal on a Sunday night. (Like I'd actually need an excuse)

I make no apologies for being a card-carrying elitist snob. None whatsoever. But I really don't think we're overthinking the genre as you put it. I'm definitely not overthinking nu-metal, because fortunately for me I was already far too old to be part of the target 12 - 24 demographic that shit was being marketed to in its hey-day back in the mid to late 90's. I'd been out of school 15 years and had a wife and kid already in '94 when the first Korn record dropped kicking off nu-metal summer. So I was one of the lucky ones who missed most of that trendy nu-metal nonsense. And except for the very biggest household name acts which I probably saw on MTV or wherever, the rest of those lesser known fly-by-night nu-bands never even registered as a blip on my old man radar. I haven't ever heard more than a song or two from most of those trendy 90's nu-bands, not even the biggies. And that was 25 going on 30 years ago now at this point so you might not even believe how little time I spend thinking about that sub-genre.

I will say I think you're being overly defensive because you're clearly hyper-sensitive to what others think of your music choices. You've gotta let those insecurities go and find a way to get past that petty shit man. Don't get all wrapped up worrying about what anyone else thinks of the music you enjoy. I can't even imagine being fussed because someone I don't even know has voiced their opinion which maybe shits on a band or a sub-genre I happen to really like. So what? Shittting on bands we believe with all our hearts to be inferior is what metalheads have been doing since Tony Iommi hit that first tritone way back in 1970. Because everyone's a critic at heart. And believe me, plenty of my fellow old men metalhead peers love to carry on that tradition and enjoy shitting all over the music that means the most to me. But that's cool because who fucking cares what anyone else thinks? We're all entitled to our opinions, and you can't take any of this "your band sucks" shit personally. I'm the one who has to listen to it, not them. And anyway since the very beginning of my musical journey all those millennia ago I've always looked at it as if the normie mainstreamers don't hate my music then I must be doing something wrong.

I get what you're trying to say and like you I could really care less what anyone enjoys but I try not to pigeonhold Metal which covers an array of subgenres. When you discredit any other style that people enjoy what are the chances someone is to come back and wanna discuss anything here? I can't stand Symphonic Metal and it's slow Operatic bullshit that most female singers use, but I also stay out of any topic that involves the style because who am I to say why people connect with it? It just makes no sense and I know it will start an argument so what would be the point? I prefer talking about music I like.

In the end you do you but this isn't the 'Death Metal' or 'Progressive Gothic Goat Throat Singing Blackest Deepest Growling Black Metal In Existence' forum. So I think it's pretty valid when I say it's ok to like other genres and talk about it without being worried about people hating it and starting an argument that wasn't needed in the first place. I'm 35 and I see you're even older, we grown, so we should know better. Enjoy what you like. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After I’d already posted sure, but you kind of missed the point. You do you bro is pretty much the opposite of gatekeeping, and since most of us share the same opinion, listen to whatever you like but don’t be surprised when people who don’t enjoy the same music, share their low opinions of it, it doesn’t make sense to call out one person. If not liking nu-metal, industrial, or melodic metalcore makes someone elitist I look forward to getting my membership card in the mail,but I’m still gonna call people out when I think it’s warranted. Maybe I’m in the wrong here, but I hardly think, and I’m going to paraphrase here, you’re a gatekeeping elitist, who just doesn’t like it, because it was popular, and you’re wrong, because I like all these things, was the way to go.

 

Moving on now, have a nice day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Skittler said:

I get what you're trying to say and like you I could really care less what anyone enjoys but I try not to pigeonhold Metal which covers an array of subgenres. When you discredit any other style that people enjoy what are the chances someone is to come back and wanna discuss anything here? I can't stand Symphonic Metal and it's slow Operatic bullshit that most female singers use, but I also stay out of any topic that involves the style because who am I to say why people connect with it? It just makes no sense and I know it will start an argument so what would be the point? I prefer talking about music I like.

In the end you do you but this isn't the 'Death Metal' or 'Progressive Gothic Goat Throat Singing Blackest Deepest Growling Black Metal In Existence' forum. So I think it's pretty valid when I say it's ok to like other genres and talk about it without being worried about people hating it and starting an argument that wasn't needed in the first place. I'm 35 and I see you're even older, we grown, so we should know better. Enjoy what you like. 

The argument I was engaging in wasn't about any specific sub-genre of music. The point I was making was that saying "they only hate [band/genre/album] XYZ because it's popular" is incorrect. To do that I had to explain my negative feelings towards nu-metal since that just happened to be the topic at hand. But I would have engaged in that same argument no matter which sub-genre was being discussed. The specific sub-genre was not important to the crux of my argument.

Of course it's OK to like whatever types of music make you happy or make you feel whichever type of way they make you feel, and of course it's "valid" to post about them on a general metal forum like this one even when they're not strictly metal. Not sure why you think any of us are saying that it wouldn't be ok to like and post about whatever you want. But at the same time to think that no one should ever be able to express an opposing or negative opinion about something you or someone else might happen to really like seems a bit snowflakey. Why would you "worry" (your word) about people hating on something you said you liked? What's the point of posting something and then not being willing to accept any feedback? How does this feedback hurt you? I assure you it's nothing personal my dude, we're just tawkin' shit here. If you can't hande an opposing opinion or some negative criticism of some music you like then maybe metal forumming's not for you. But if you're gonna interact with others on an internet metal forum you shoud probaby learn to deal with the fact that not eveyone's going to like or agree with everything you post all the time.

What if I were to post some of the blackest deepest growliest black metal in existence and then someone replied that they thought it was fucking rubbish? Am I supposed to go lie down pop a Xanax and have a good cry? Their subjective opinion (however wrong it might be) is as valid as mine, isn't it? I don't take simple disagreements over music to mean that someone's attacking me personally. I'm aware that not everyone appreciates the blackest deepest gnarliest black metal. They're just expressing a differing opinion about some music, which imho is fair game on a music forum. As I've said everyone's a critic, and it follows that critics are gonna criticize.

We're a fairly small group of mostly middle aged men here (there are a few under 40's that post here but not too many under 30's, except for the occasional teenager who wanders in by mistake every few weeks) and we have some pretty varied musical tastes among us. We don't all generally agree on very much musically speaking (which makes for some lively debate) but one of the very few things that we can mostly all agree on (not all of us, there'll always be a random outlier or two here and there) is that nu-metal and melodic metalcore is garbage with no redeeming musical value. You are by no means required to share that opinion to post here. If you dig it then you dig it, that's fine. All opinions are welcome. But I should think that most people over 30 who identify even peripherally as 'metalheads' would surely be aware on some level that certain sub-genres such as but not limited to nu-metal and metalcore can be pretty divisive.

You asked what are the chances that anyone would want to come back and discuss anything with us here once we've had a go and discredited their music preferences. And to be quite frank, all I can say in response to that question is that most of us regulars really wouldn't want to see this place turn into the nu-metal, metalcore and symphonic goth teeny-bopper nonsense forum. I suppose there is a time and a place for that kind of mainstream kiddie-centric music to exist in the world and be discussed, but we're all just hoping that the time isn't now and the place isn't here. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

After I’d already posted sure, but you kind of missed the point. You do you bro is pretty much the opposite of gatekeeping, and since most of us share the same opinion, listen to whatever you like but don’t be surprised when people who don’t enjoy the same music, share their low opinions of it, it doesn’t make sense to call out one person. If not liking nu-metal, industrial, or melodic metalcore makes someone elitist I look forward to getting my membership card in the mail,but I’m still gonna call people out when I think it’s warranted. Maybe I’m in the wrong here, but I hardly think, and I’m going to paraphrase here, you’re a gatekeeping elitist, who just doesn’t like it, because it was popular, and you’re wrong, because I like all these things, was the way to go.

Gatekeeping as I understand it Blivvie is the act of teling someone that their music doesn't qualify or pass the sniff test as legit metal. So when someone posts nu-metal or lightweight teeny-bopper metalcore or gothpop on a metal forum, and then someone else invariaby jumps in and says "I'm sorry but that's not even really metal" then we are essentially acting as condescending megalomaniac elitists who are unfairly denying them access to the cool kids he-man metalhead club. And that's discrimination, or gatekeeping. Intolerantly controlling the narrative as to what will be accepted as true legit metal and what won't. Because I think many of the fans of this watered down kinda stuff really do believe that they're into metal and that they deserve a seat at the metal table right alongside the real metal sub-genres. And I guess they feel like who the fuck are we to tell them they're not and it's not and that they should sit down and keep their mouths shut in the back of the bus while the grown-ups are talking on the long ride to metaltown?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Gatekeeping as I understand it Blivvie is the act of teling someone that their music doesn't qualify or pass the sniff test as legit metal. So when someone posts nu-metal or lightweight teeny-bopper metalcore or gothpop on a metal forum, and then someone else invariaby jumps in and says "I'm sorry but that's not even really metal" then we are essentially acting as condescending megalomaniac elitists who are unfairly denying them access to the cool kids he-man metalhead club. And that's discrimination, or gatekeeping. Intolerantly controlling the narrative as to what will be accepted as true legit metal and what won't. Because I think many of the fans of this watered down kinda stuff really do believe that they're into metal and that they deserve a seat at the metal table right alongside the real metal sub-genres. And I guess they feel like who the fuck are we to tell them they're not and it's not and that they should sit down and keep their mouths shut in the back of the bus while the grown-ups are talking on the long ride to metaltown?  

This is all accurate, and what seems to happen here all the time. It's a pretty impossible situation to reconcile though. Some newbies post here hoping to find kindred spirits and just hear crickets. Although I think that is better than actively telling someone the music they love sucks. 

Watered down metal is still something...a thread to pull. I reckon anyone that jumps straight from Taylor Swift to the most discordant dense blackened death thrash is probably not that reliable as a long term prospect to the brotherhood anyway. What we want is people who are on a journey because they like how something a bit heavier makes them feel. And then want something a little bit heavier than that. 

It can be hard enough to connect with new posters that write all in caps or don't use sentences, but we probably need to make an effort, including not having mods scold people for not using the correct three year old thread to post about a topic. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just listen to whatever you feel like :)

I listen music every day (no radio) and I go days without metal sometimes, but sometimes I would listen to one metal song on a repeat 15 times.

Sometimes I would listen something on the more extreme side of metal and something something more on the softer side :)

But I will never apologize for it (I don't know if this is the right expression) because the music I'm listening I listen for me to be in a certain mood not for others.

 

P.S. summer started in Slovenija, feeling very Olympic today 😊

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

This is all accurate, and what seems to happen here all the time. It's a pretty impossible situation to reconcile though. Some newbies post here hoping to find kindred spirits and just hear crickets. Although I think that is better than actively telling someone the music they love sucks. 

Watered down metal is still something...a thread to pull. I reckon anyone that jumps straight from Taylor Swift to the most discordant dense blackened death thrash is probably not that reliable as a long term prospect to the brotherhood anyway. What we want is people who are on a journey because they like how something a bit heavier makes them feel. And then want something a little bit heavier than that. 

It can be hard enough to connect with new posters that write all in caps or don't use sentences, but we probably need to make an effort, including not having mods scold people for not using the correct three year old thread to post about a topic. 

Yeah, I think most of us come onto a forum like this looking for kindred spirits, hoping there wll be someone or if we're lucky multiple someones there who listen to the same flavors of metal as we do so we can trade recos and kick stuff around. That isn't always the case, and as my journey has taken me deeper and deeper down the goat metal rabbit hole in recent years I have less and less people who give a shit with which to bounce this stuff off of. And now that Navy's gone and Zach is gone and Hungarino and Marko now post sporadically at best I'm basically on an island by myself without allies, occasionally finding some small crumbs of common musical ground with either you or Mark or Doc or Deadly or Serpico or Blivvie. I've had to adapt and I have found myself jumping in to talk about stuff I don't really care much about, or about bands I used to like 35 years ago. Sometimes I'll even find myself listening to eclectic Doc recos I know I probably won't like just to pass the time and maybe get a little window into his unique brand of ACT insanity

So I can't feel bad for these mainstreamers who show up here on our doorstep and don't find anyone to talk about their favorite flavor of artificially sweetened swill with. Because they're mainstreamers after all, and they're usually still fairly young so I know they'll be able to find some of their own kind to connect with out there somewhere on the webz. I disagree though about the crickets being better than flat-out telling someone their music sucks. I think any response, even a negative response, is usually better than crickets. And let's face it, it's usually something they needed to hear anyway. And you'd be surprised, every now and then interesting convos can grow out of a starting point of this music you like really sucks. Even if the interesting convo ends up being with someone else other than the OP.

Not gonna lie, I get fairly excited when I see a Jon-O post in the morning because you have excellent conversational skills, and you're sharp Kiwi with a relatable sense of humor despite the fact that we don't really see eye to eye on verry much of our music or even our dietary habits for that matter. But I like smart people so I do enjoy the hell out of our forum interactions. There was that one new guy who showed up a couple months ago who seemed pretty promising. We didn't really see eye to eye musically, he was more into prog and the avant-garde end of the spectrum but he had been around the block and acquired some knowledge and I was able to have a couple of very interesting convos with him at least before he got banned within a week. C'est la vie.

1 hour ago, BLAMO said:

P.S. summer started in Slovenija, feeling very Olympic today 😊

I'll never understand how seasons can start at different times in different countries in the same hemisphere. Officially we're still nearly a month away from the first day of summer here in the states. June 21st, which will be either the last day or the next to last day of 3rd grade for the kid.

And yes, 'apologize for it' is the correct expression. Never apologize for what you listen to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

 

I'll never understand how seasons can start at different times in different countries in the same hemisphere. Officially we're still nearly a month away from the first day of summer here in the states. June 21st, which will be either the last day or the next to last day of 3rd grade for the kid.

 

Maybe I wrote that wrong, start of summer is also on 21st of June but the first day of summer weather (29° Cesium, swimming in the sea) was yesterday.

Kids in Slovenija finish school on 23rd of June and return to school on 1st of September, but since this year 1st of September drops on Friday I think most of kids will be in school only on Monday, 4th.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, BLAMO said:

Maybe I wrote that wrong, start of summer is also on 21st of June but the first day of summer weather (29° Cesium, swimming in the sea) was yesterday.

Kids in Slovenija finish school on 23rd of June and return to school on 1st of September, but since this year 1st of September drops on Friday I think most of kids will be in school only on Monday, 4th.

We have a holiday called Labor Day in the US each year on that first Monday in September, so my son always goes back on that Tuesday. When I lived in NY it was always that Wednesday.

Sorry for the misunderstanding regarding what you meant about the first day of summer, I completely understand now, I should have known what you meant to begin with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

....And now that Navy's gone and Zach is gone and Hungarino and Marko now post sporadically at best I'm basically on an island by myself without allies, occasionally finding some small crumbs of common musical ground with either you or Mark or Doc or Deadly or Serpico or Blivvie. I've had to adapt and I have found myself jumping in to talk about stuff I don't really care much about, or about bands I used to like 35 years ago. Sometimes I'll even find myself listening to eclectic Doc recos I know I probably won't like just to pass the time and maybe get a little window into his unique brand of ACT insanity

So I can't feel bad for these mainstreamers who show up here on our doorstep and don't find anyone to talk about their favorite flavor of artificially sweetened swill with. Because they're mainstreamers after all, and they're usually still fairly young so I know they'll be able to find some of their own kind to connect with out there somewhere on the webz. I disagree though about the crickets being better than flat-out telling someone their music sucks. I think any response, even a negative response, is usually better than crickets. And let's face it, it's usually something they needed to hear anyway. And you'd be surprised, every now and then interesting convos can grow out of a starting point of this music you like really sucks. Even if the interesting convo ends up being with someone else other than the OP.

What happened to Navy and Zach? Like RIP "gone"? Did the goat bus crash in a holocaust of bleating and horn fragments?

I still find the What Are You Listening To? section useful. It is varied enough that regularly enough I find something useful. My uptake of new music is about right for what time allows.

It's true that the "your music sucks" beatdown does sometimes yield interesting convos, while alienating the OP. But, for a teenager looking for validation you may just crush their hopes and dreams and they'll start cutting on themselves or whatever it is the kids do for attention these days (shoot up an elementary school?). Old grizzled veterans such as we can handle it because we don't care what anyone else thinks. I haven't shot up an elementary school in months.

Anyway, for this reason I think its useful to be constructive. Although, I remember a few threads where the tone was pretty welcoming and the poster disappears anyway. 

NP: Elaborations of Carbon (Reissue) | YOB (bandcamp.com)

I haven't bought this yet because I'm still trying to decide if Yob is a bit interchangeable. Great, but interchangeable.

Not nu-metal, that's for sure.

And great background music....because I better get on and do some work.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JonoBlade said:

NP: Elaborations of Carbon (Reissue) | YOB (bandcamp.com)

I haven't bought this yet because I'm still trying to decide if Yob is a bit interchangeable. Great, but interchangeable.

I had a listen and I decided I didn't need it. Interchangeable says it well. Good background music I guess but I've got plenty of interchangeable ambient music to do that job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I had a listen and I decided I didn't need it. Interchangeable says it well. Good background music I guess but I've got plenty of interchangeable ambient music to do that job.

If you're a Yob yobbo and a completionalist then it is worth getting, but neither of us are. However, I decided to pick up The Illusion of Motion | YOB (bandcamp.com) because it was my first exposure to them back in 2004, which was when I was an illegal downloading dickhead. Now I am a legitimate dickhead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JonoBlade said:

If you're a Yob yobbo and a completionalist then it is worth getting, but neither of us are. However, I decided to pick up The Illusion of Motion | YOB (bandcamp.com) because it was my first exposure to them back in 2004, which was when I was an illegal downloading dickhead. Now I am a legitimate dickhead.

Elaborations of Carbon is my personal favorite of the older YOB albums. If I had that one, Illusions of Motion and Clearing the Path that'd be all the YOB I'd really need.

No one wants to see your legitimate dickhead Jon. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Elaborations of Carbon is my personal favorite of the older YOB albums. If I had that one, Illusions of Motion and Clearing the Path that'd be all the YOB I'd really need.

No one wants to see your legitimate dickhead Jon. 

Actually, IDT I've ever heard Elaborations. Catharsis was where I jumped in. i do love me some Catharsis and especially Illusions of Motion is really strong-one of my favorite AOAT.Atma and Clearing the Path are also essential. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Okay, so we started with nu-metal and ended up at YOB. Interesting.  I'll probably go back and read the whole thread a little later.

First thing's first I guess, a ton of metalheads from a generation or so ago came into their own with nu-metal as a starting point, myself included. It doesn't make Korn any less insufferable to me nowadays though. I will fully own up to having owned Disturbed's The Sickness and enjoying it when I was in junior high. I think a big problem that hits people eventually is the lack of any true "underground" scene for the stuff. It was very much a kind of engineered trend that took off after most people had started to tire of grunge, which itself was the long overdue bullet to the back of the head for glam in the vein of Poison, Def Leopard, what have you. The main access to newer music for most children at that point was still very much whatever was on the radio, so generally the major label cabal had a lot more of a hold on people's taste then I think many remember.

Then the heraldic internet age blessed us all with the freedom to branch out. I do think that larger labels were far too slow reacting to that, and now they're mostly the ones who you'll hear whinging about the "death of the music industry". Spoiler alert, that's not and never was happening. It's just much more democratic and personalized now. The consequences of this for nu-metal of course lacking any real depth beneath what was already being pushed with a few outliers here and there meant that what was on the radio was both the ceiling and floor for the genre, and as freedom and access grew over the years, many hungry music fans found themselves falling straight through that floor and into legitimate underground metal. All of a sudden nu-metal acts felt shallow and simple, leaving a bad taste in the mouth of many. Nu-metal got outclassed by... well, almost everything else.

As far as YOB goes I'm an absolute fanboy. I've only seen them twice, but man they're something else. Mike Scheidt has had himself an incredible career with that band, and I will buy and listen to whatever they put out. The Illusion of Motion is my personal favorite, and The Unreal Never lived is my least, but of course I still enjoy it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

 

Then the heraldic internet age blessed us all with the freedom to branch out. I do think that larger labels were far too slow reacting to that, and now they're mostly the ones who you'll hear whinging about the "death of the music industry". Spoiler alert, that's not and never was happening. It's just much more democratic and personalized now. The consequences of this for nu-metal of course lacking any real depth beneath what was already being pushed with a few outliers here and there meant that what was on the radio was both the ceiling and floor for the genre, and as freedom and access grew over the years, many hungry music fans found themselves falling straight through that floor and into legitimate underground metal. All of a sudden nu-metal acts felt shallow and simple, leaving a bad taste in the mouth of many. Nu-metal got outclassed by... well, almost everything else.

Great post.  I especially think you hit the nail with these bits.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Conversations here do tend to wander in interesting directions, you get used to it eventually.

 

re gatekeeping GG I do know what it means, but I don’t recall anyone seriously saying it isn’t metal, just that we don’t like it. My memory isn’t the best, however so I’m probably wrong. I think it is kinder to people who join them like me 0P if we let them know they won’t find common ground. If this stuff is all they listen to, since it means they can move on and find kindred spirits elsewhere. 

 

re nu-metal I dodged the bullet on that one, though I did get caught in the melodic metal core fad in high school, never bought any albums, though, fortunately. The Internet certainly does make it easier to both talk with, and share recommendations with, people who have similar taste. I can’t imagine my collection would be anywhere near as substantial if I hadn’t stumbled across this forum some 12 years ago.

 

Lastly Re Yob I don’t know, I do dig the whole ambient thing every now, and then, but generally, I get my fix from atmospheric, black metal, or the more simplistic side of funeral doom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

but I don’t recall anyone seriously saying it isn’t metal, just that we don’t like it. 

Pretty sure I said it wasn't metal.

And I'll stand by it - a lot of it is alternative rock or rap rock.  Simple riffs, simple drumming (often hiphop influenced), whiney vocals mixed with rap. 

Very few nu-metal bands played anything resembling metal.  Many such as Korn and Linkin Park deny they were ever metal bands and I totally agree.

Nu-metal was basically a heavier version of Faith No More.  And sure FNM had odd metal bit but they were mainly alternative rock (and dabbled in other stuff - prog rock, pop,hip hop, lounge, polka, punk and anything else you could point a stick at) .  I say that as a FNM fan too.

 

So Nu-metal =/= Metal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I stand corrected, and for the record I do kind of agree with you, though I’m a lot less rigid when it comes to what I consider metal or not in an overarching sense. I’m much less likely to correct someone when they say disturbed, for example, are metal then if they mistakenly called Bathory Thrash for example

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

First thing's first I guess, a ton of metalheads from a generation or so ago came into their own with nu-metal as a starting point, myself included. It doesn't make Korn any less insufferable to me nowadays though. I will fully own up to having owned Disturbed's The Sickness and enjoying it when I was in junior high. 

Wait a minute. I thought you said you were "long in the tooth?" Now you reveal that you're actually just a millennial?? Now I've got nothing against millennials, my daughter's a millennial and I love her very much. But that's not "long in the tooth," you're not even 40 yet!

 

45 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

Very few nu-metal bands played anything resembling metal.  Many such as Korn and Linkin Park deny they were ever metal bands and I totally agree.

That's because the term "nu-metal" was made up by the music industry as a way to help them market their plastic products to kids. Their 20th century business model dictated that the recording industry needed to generate a hot new trend every 5 - 10 years or so to drive new record sales. There isn't a 90's band in existence who in their early formative garage days said hey guys I think we should play nu-metal. It's a bullshit made up marketing term that means absolutely nothing. Just like "grunge." There were no bands who formed at 18 - 20 years old in the late 80's and thought what they were playing was "grunge." The recording industry applied these terms to their music after the fact in hopes of creating a trend. Trends were good for record sales. That's why you have all these different bands that sound very different from one another all lumped together into these artifical "genres" like nu-metal and grunge. Real genres get named by the fans and by the music press who are essentially just fans themselves who managed to get jobs writing about music.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Wait a minute. I thought you said you were "long in the tooth?" Now you reveal that you're actually just a millennial?? Now I've got nothing against millennials, my daughter's a millennial and I love her very much. But that's not "long in the tooth," you're not even 40 yet!

Aww come on man. I can't lose my aarp card. I need that for food.😄

Honestly, though, I've never actually checked which years of birth precisely classify as millennial. I just assumed they were younger than me, since whenever I'm handling promotional material that specifically mentions stats and marketing to millennials there's always some stock photo of a flock of teenagers trying desperately to make their smiles look sincere. And I'm rapidly approaching forty though (two and a half years from now). I'm sure not stepping into any mosh pits again. Those days are gone. Also I've really only met a few metalheads my age, not counting veteran touring band members.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Join Metal Forum

    joinus-home.jpg

  • Our picks

    • Whichever tier of thrash metal you consigned Sacred Reich back in the 80's/90's they still had their moments.  "Ignorance" & "Surf Nicaragura" did a great job of establishing the band, whereas "The American Way" just got a little to comfortable and accessible (the title track grates nowadays) for my ears.  A couple more records better left forgotten about and then nothing for twenty three years.  2019 alone has now seen three releases from Phil Rind and co.  A live EP, a split EP with Iron Reagan and now a full length.

      Notable addition to the ranks for the current throng of releases is former Machine Head sticksman, Dave McClean.  Love or hate Machine Head, McClean is a more than capable drummer and his presence here is felt from the off with the opening and title track kicking things off with some real gusto.  'Divide & Conquer' and 'Salvation' muddle along nicely, never quite reaching any quality that would make my balls tingle but comfortable enough.  The looming build to 'Manifest Reality' delivers a real punch when the song starts proper.  Frenzied riffs and drums with shots of lead work to hold the interest.


      There's a problem already though (I know, I am such a fucking mood hoover).  I don't like Phil's vocals.  I never had if I am being honest.  The aggression to them seems a little forced even when they are at their best on tracks like 'Manifest Reality'.  When he tries to sing it just feels weak though ('Salvation') and tracks lose real punch.  Give him a riffy number such as 'Killing Machine' and he is fine with the Reich engine (probably a poor choice of phrase) up in sixth gear.  For every thrashy riff there's a fair share of rock edged, local bar act rhythm aplenty too.

      Let's not poo-poo proceedings though, because overall I actually enjoy "Awakening".  It is stacked full of catchy riffs that are sticky on the old ears.  Whilst not as raw as perhaps the - brilliant - artwork suggests with its black and white, tattoo flash sheet style design it is enjoyable enough.  Yes, 'Death Valley' & 'Something to Believe' have no place here, saved only by Arnett and Radziwill's lead work but 'Revolution' is a fucking 80's thrash heyday throwback to the extent that if you turn the TV on during it you might catch a new episode of Cheers!

      3/5
      • Reputation Points

      • 10 replies
    • I
      • Reputation Points

      • 2 replies
    • https://www.metalforum.com/blogs/entry/52-vltimas-something-wicked-marches-in/
      • Reputation Points

      • 3 replies

    • https://www.metalforum.com/blogs/entry/48-candlemass-the-door-to-doom/
      • Reputation Points

      • 2 replies
    • Full length number 19 from overkill certainly makes a splash in the energy stakes, I mean there's some modern thrash bands that are a good two decades younger than Overkill who can only hope to achieve the levels of spunk that New Jersey's finest produce here.  That in itself is an achievement, for a band of Overkill's stature and reputation to be able to still sound relevant four decades into their career is no mean feat.  Even in the albums weaker moments it never gets redundant and the energy levels remain high.  There's a real sense of a band in a state of some renewed vigour, helped in no small part by the addition of Jason Bittner on drums.  The former Flotsam & Jetsam skinsman is nothing short of superb throughout "The Wings of War" and seems to have squeezed a little extra out of the rest of his peers.

      The album kicks of with a great build to opening track "Last Man Standing" and for the first 4 tracks of the album the Overkill crew stomp, bash and groove their way to a solid level of consistency.  The lead work is of particular note and Blitz sounds as sneery and scathing as ever.  The album is well produced and mixed too with all parts of the thrash machine audible as the five piece hammer away at your skull with the usual blend of chugging riffs and infectious anthems.  


      There are weak moments as mentioned but they are more a victim of how good the strong tracks are.  In it's own right "Distortion" is a solid enough - if not slightly varied a journey from the last offering - but it just doesn't stand up well against a "Bat Shit Crazy" or a "Head of a Pin".  As the album draws to a close you get the increasing impression that the last few tracks are rescued really by some great solos and stomping skin work which is a shame because trimming of a couple of tracks may have made this less obvious. 

      4/5
      • Reputation Points

      • 4 replies
×
×
  • Create New...