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When metal bands p*ssed off there fans by changing style ???????


blaaacdoommmmfan

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Perhaps Burzum could be another contender here.  I know that his style certainly evolved over time, and that many people have sharp disagreements over which albums/eras of his material are even worth listening to.  I generally like all Burzum albums, but certainly have a preference as to which era is best!

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On 4/15/2020 at 7:25 AM, Eternal_ said:

My favorite album is Morningrise. It was deeply interesting and atmospheric, so much i can!t explain. I lthink imy favorite era is really starting at this one and, it ends when they released the first prog rock album... with the self laughing cover art... how it was called? Ehm... I don!t know now, i was so disapointed that i never heard it twice, lol :D

The first two albums are my favourite of there's to be honest. For me I love the way they mix death metal with prog and loads of other different genres in neat little flourishes ?plus the use of contrast is used to great effect between heavy and light sections, clean and harsh vocals in a unique way that's executed with perfection. It's a very eclectic album I really like but not one for purists who generally hate it. I also agree with you as for me this album was there high point. The albums to my ears afterwards were not as varied as this one but still good. I read that the band changed there style  because of copy cat bands mimicking there style or they got bored and fancied a change. I also read that recreation of the early material live was very difficult and so they altered there style so they could get tighter live shows but im only going on what other fans have said on internet. They were still good album's after. Obviously that heritage album was a shock because it's so different to every thing they'd done before. I like you listened to it a few times but never really connected with it as losing the heavy bits and replacing it with meandering prog or whatever for all I heard meant they lost there unique opeth sound for me if that makes sense. Your right alot of there fans were a bit disappointed with this one.maybe like this ??????  Maybe they gained loads of new prog fans I don't know.  

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On 4/15/2020 at 11:42 AM, noblastbeats said:

I think I remember reading in Metal Hammer that they all made up around about the time they did the Big 4 tour. Maybe it'll happen!

. For me Mettalica for too long have been surrounded by yes men. Alot of previous album's are not thrash anymore but could have been good hard rock albums with better edits of the songs and some times less songs on album like load album.  I'm not only person who thinks this. I heard a few metal djs say it as have a load of rock and metal fans I've spoken too.  My hope for mettalica would be that they give doing an old school album again a real go with this time not turning the bass really low like they did with justice for all. Get in a proper  thrash producer.  plus  If they got Dave mustaine in he would not mince his words and they might do something special ?

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On 4/15/2020 at 6:49 PM, Balor said:

Perhaps Burzum could be another contender here.  I know that his style certainly evolved over time, and that many people have sharp disagreements over which albums/eras of his material are even worth listening to.  I generally like all Burzum albums, but certainly have a preference as to which era is best!

I know nothing about burzums music as not heard any of it but I know the early stuff is highly regarded from bands, fans and journalists who think the music is really fantastic .can anyone else elaborate. I assume after he was jailed for 20 years plus for that nasty murder of euronomous and the chapel burnings his popularity plummeted and never returned.i remember reading about that back in the day and I was shocked what had happened, no real easy answers to what happened but clearly things got very out of hand.      Your a big fan aren't you balor burzum. Was it you who said the albums quality went down in prison because he was only allowed to play on keyboards. Did the album quality improve after release from prison when varg got to play with guitars again. Are burzum still serious players  or have they sunk to the bottom. I can imagine after what's happened burzum really gets a divided opinion. What are other people's opinions of burzum and or varg. 

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31 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

I know nothing about burzums music as not heard any of it but I know the early stuff is highly regarded from bands, fans and journalists who think the music is really fantastic .can anyone else elaborate. I assume after he was jailed for 20 years plus for that nasty murder of euronomous and the chapel burnings his popularity plummeted and never returned.i remember reading about that back in the day and I was shocked what had happened, no real easy answers to what happened but clearly things got very out of hand.      Your a big fan aren't you balor burzum. Was it you who said the albums quality went down in prison because he was only allowed to play on keyboards. Did the album quality improve after release from prison when varg got to play with guitars again. Are burzum still serious players  or have they sunk to the bottom. I can imagine after what's happened burzum really gets a divided opinion. What are other people's opinions of burzum and or varg. 

I am a big fan of Burzum, though I do not think that the quality of his albums when down while he was incarcerated.  His prison albums represent, to me at least, some of his best material (and certainly the best of his ambient works).  However, Burzum's post-prison music just does not live up to the same atmosphere as what came before.  It generally falls flat to my ears (in reference to other Burzum albums, they are still enjoyable).

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On 4/17/2020 at 10:46 PM, Balor said:

I am a big fan of Burzum, though I do not think that the quality of his albums when down while he was incarcerated.  His prison albums represent, to me at least, some of his best material (and certainly the best of his ambient works).  However, Burzum's post-prison music just does not live up to the same atmosphere as what came before.  It generally falls flat to my ears (in reference to other Burzum albums, they are still enjoyable).

?To be honest would have to listen to some burzum before I can comment any more. What are your top picks. I take it you like the early stuff plus at least 1 of the ambient prison releases.  

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5 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

?To be honest would have to listen to some burzum before I can comment any more. What are your top picks. I take it you like the early stuff plus at least 1 of the ambient prison releases.  

Honestly, everything up through Hliðskjálf is masterful (including the demos).  Burzum goes downhill a bit after that.  Filosofem is probably his best work (some might disagree, but this is my opinion), so that is a must-listen!

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On 4/20/2020 at 10:32 PM, Balor said:

Honestly, everything up through Hliðskjálf is masterful (including the demos).  Burzum goes downhill a bit after that.  Filosofem is probably his best work (some might disagree, but this is my opinion), so that is a must-listen!

? Will be rocking out to some of that 

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For me it was probably Satyricon. Their first three albums are black metal classics, then Satyr just seemed to become more and more interested in sounding like some sort of arena rock...don't get me wrong, even their self-titled release has its moments, but it's just not the same. I'll go back and listen to "Forhekset" or whatever and then wonder why I even bother trying to listen to their more recent material.

(Honorable mention for Anathema. I don't think they were exactly fantastic to begin with, but damn they had a really unique sound on Serenades and their first few EPs. Then they steadily lost their minds, it seems.)

Actually, I believe this is a curse most bands suffer from at some point, oftentimes permanently. I guess they get bored and sort of jump off the deep end experminetally and never return. No one's asking for the same exact album over and over again, but when your fans can't even recognize your new music as yours...there's definitely a problem.

On 4/13/2020 at 4:35 AM, Eternal_ said:

For me, it was Opeth and Katatonia, for instance. I!ve been their huge fan till Opeth went into the kinda heavier Art/Prog. Rock and Katatonia started to put much sugar into their cup of coffees. 

Ugh yes - two of my most favorite bands of all time but I really cannot stomach Opeth's psychadelic/progressive rock-inspired Porcupine Tree worship, nor Katatonia's electronica BS much these days. I'm still a huge fan of their 90s output but I can't bring myself to listen to their more recent stuff. It's pretty disheartening when you have to try to force yourself to like their new albums...

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6 hours ago, Depraved said:

For me it was probably Satyricon. Their first three albums are black metal classics, then Satyr just seemed to become more and more interested in sounding like some sort of arena rock...don't get me wrong, even their self-titled release has its moments, but it's just not the same. I'll go back and listen to "Forhekset" or whatever and then wonder why I even bother trying to listen to their more recent material.

While I was never a big fan of Satyricon, I can see where this is coming from.  Their early bm was great, but the turn to black 'n roll - not so much.

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On 4/26/2020 at 9:03 PM, Depraved said:

 

I really cannot stomach Opeth's psychadelic/progressive rock-inspired Porcupine Tree worship, nor Katatonia's electronica BS much these days. I'm still a huge fan of their 90s output but I can't bring myself to listen to their more recent stuff. It's pretty disheartening when you have to try to force yourself to like their new albums...

With the case of opeth. More of a case of oh dear for me. I know they've got alot of fans still. But for me they used to be so good when they were playing metal with loads of other genres mixed in, they were one of my favourite bands. First two albums are some of my favourite albums. I guess Michael akerfeldt got bored of doing metal and just stopped doing it. I reckon opeth should have dropped that name and called themselves some thing else when they went all prog. What was it you just did not get with the opeth prog stuff. For me it was the loss of extreme contrast  from heavy stuff to beutifull light sections.  

Also what other bands should just drop there name and start again with a new one when they completely change there style of music. It's a crazy idea but theres certain amount of logic to it. 

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12 hours ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

With the case of opeth. More of a case of oh dear for me. I know they've got alot of fans still. But for me they used to be so good when they were playing metal with loads of other genres mixed in, they were one of my favourite bands. First two albums are some of my favourite albums. I guess Michael akerfeldt got bored of doing metal and just stopped doing it. I reckon opeth should have dropped that name and called themselves some thing else when they went all prog. What was it you just did not get with the opeth prog stuff. For me it was the loss of extreme contrast  from heavy stuff to beutifull light sections.  

Also what other bands should just drop there name and start again with a new one when they completely change there style of music. It's a crazy idea but theres certain amount of logic to it. 

I agree, their early material is still excellent. I love their first three albums, very avant-garde and experimental but I love the juxtaposition of melodic/acoustic/instrumental with more harsh death metal passages and so forth. I think Ghost Reveries and Watershed is where they really started to sound way too much like a progressive rock band, but it was Heritage that was the final straw for me. I was just bored throughout that entire album. Their work since then has felt much the same way. 

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On 4/28/2020 at 2:01 PM, Depraved said:

I agree, their early material is still excellent. I love their first three albums, very avant-garde and experimental but I love the juxtaposition of melodic/acoustic/instrumental with more harsh death metal passages and so forth. I think Ghost Reveries and Watershed is where they really started to sound way too much like a progressive rock band, but it was Heritage that was the final straw for me. I was just bored throughout that entire album. Their work since then has felt much the same way. 

Ok great so it's not just me who has tried to listen to the new prog stuff but just does not really like it. I'm not even sure it's good for prog music then again they do popular tours all the time so they must be doing some thing right . 

Do you reckon the change in sound may be to do with Michael akerfeldt protecting his voice as not everyone can sing harsh vocals forever just an idea after watching a you tube video when he sung poorly and the vocal coach said excellent voice protecting technique for when doing harsh vocals. 

 

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Haha, if you read enough internet chatter every metal band has pissed off fans by changing. Maiden have changed, Priest have changed, they've all changed and the so called fans get pissy. It's almost a given that the older bands of the 80's and 90's say they are going to release something and the negative talk starts almost immediately afterwards, then carries through to when the album is released. At that point the same people spend the next few weeks justifying their comments by picking the shit out of the new release.

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On 10/1/2021 at 4:23 PM, eternalcrypt said:

Its been said, but metallica, in my opinion havent released a decent record since death magnetic. after the black album is great music and stuff, but its sad to see them cut their hair and kinda drop thrash like that. 

I'd go further than that. I'd say it's a shame mettalica who are in some ways my favourite band ever have not done another super amazing album since master of puppets. That was the high point for me. The album's that followed are not all that bad really but don't come any where near imo. Enter sandman is iconic metal popular track imo though. Ok Lulu album with Lou Reed is terrible imo but I'm sure fair load must like it . Load was the album when I stopped listening to them for number of years. I was so disappointed.mama said is not a bad track but Metallica doing country was too much for me at the time. Did you like the Lulu Lou Reed duet release they did.

Agree that black album was disappointing they stopped the thrash stuff as much. Even though justice was far from perfect. I used to listen to that after load and think justice is way better imo 😁

What did you think for load release. Metal was even more absent imo here

 

 

 

 

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On 10/1/2021 at 6:33 PM, KillaKukumba said:

Haha, if you read enough internet chatter every metal band has pissed off fans by changing. Maiden have changed, Priest have changed, they've all changed and the so called fans get pissy. It's almost a given that the older bands of the 80's and 90's say they are going to release something and the negative talk starts almost immediately afterwards, then carries through to when the album is released. At that point the same people spend the next few weeks justifying their comments by picking the shit out of the new release.

Well the way I see it a metal band is a brand. Once you've established your brand if you stray too far from your roots and whatever it was you did to earn your fan base to begin with then you're gonna lose some fans, that's a given. I've always felt that if you've established a sound over multiple albums and you feeel hemmed in and want to go in another completely different direction then either change the name of the band or release stuff as a side project under a different name. Lots of bands will put out albums consisteing of material in a different sub-genre than the main band under a different name as to not confuse the fans. Most of these well established household name bands from 30 or 40 years ago that have drastically changed their sounds in a watered-down more commercial direction are banking on gaining more new fans with this move than they'll lose.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many fans will happily keep buying a band's output for decades after their creative zenith just because they liked the first few albums 30 years ago and they apparently feel some (misguided imo) sense of loyalty to the brand. Metallica, Megadeth, Priest, Opeth, Maiden, Slayer, Anthrax, AC/DC...all bands I've liked quite a bit at some point in the past, but at this point it's been so long since they've shit the bed that I can't even imagine what it would feel like to care about any of these dinosaur bands releasing new albums. They're just not on my radar anymore. Even if they haven't changed in a shameless attempt to solicit commercial success, most older bands have already shot their creative loads and have lost the ability to write compelling songs. Yes of course there are exceptions to this, bands that have managed to keep the quality consistently high for several decades, but let's be serious the list of bands that've had the magic and then lost it is easily 100 times as long. It's not news when an 80's band shits the bed, it's news if they haven't.

Once a band gets on my shit list (in my bad books for you Commonwealthers) I generally won't even bother to have a quick listen to their new stuff for curiosity's sake anymore as for the most part that practice has only led me to bitter disappointment. I'm not angry with them or anything for changing though, because I have far more than enough other new music that floats my battleship. I simply prefer to remember these aging bands as they were back in their prime. If a legacy band does manage to change their sound late in their career and still make great music (like a Celtic Frost for example) or they've shit the bed and then later make an unexpected return to form, then I'm sure word of this miracle comeback will spread around the interwebs like wildfire and sooner or later I'll hear about it. As a rule I don't read the internet "chatter" though, this is the only site I frequent on the internet that has a foucus on metal. 

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Don't those who speak the Queen's tongue have a shit list? Damn, there is so many rules to learn.

Brand loyalty as describe by one could just as easily be a willingness to adapt to change as described by another. There is nothing wrong with liking a band and all they output, even when they change. Just as there is nothing wrong with sticking with a band who play the same stuff forever, because it's their 'brand'.

There is however something wrong with the sort of person who says "I moved away from X band in 1995 because they released one album that sucked and therefore every album they have released since and will release in the future will also suck." Yet that is the exact mantra displayed by so many, and the action I was referring to in my post.

 

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5 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Don't those who speak the Queen's tongue have a shit list? Damn, there is so many rules to learn.

Brand loyalty as describe by one could just as easily be a willingness to adapt to change as described by another. There is nothing wrong with liking a band and all they output, even when they change. Just as there is nothing wrong with sticking with a band who play the same stuff forever, because it's their 'brand'.

There is however something wrong with the sort of person who says "I moved away from X band in 1995 because they released one album that sucked and therefore every album they have released since and will release in the future will also suck." Yet that is the exact mantra displayed by so many, and the action I was referring to in my post.

 

I never said there was anything wrong with brand loyalty or sticking with a band til the bitter end IF you're still enjoying what they do. For example I enjoy all the various iterations of Darkthrone as they've changed their core sound a few different times over their 34 year career. I look forward to buying every new album they put out because I still really like them and what they do.

But to stick with a band for 20 or 30 years all the while continuing to complain with every new album that the new stuff is different or just isn't as good as their older stuff seems stupid and pointless to me. Expecting a band that you feel has reached their peak and has been on the decline or has been going through the motions and failing for 20 or 30 years to suddenly revert back to their prime form from 1984 just seems unrealistic and pretty dumb to me.

Now as it happens I am absolutely the sort of person who says "I moved away from band XYZ in 1985 because they released a couple of albums that sucked and therefore every album they have released since and will ever release in the future will also suck." But the thing is I don't spend all my time pining away for these old legacy bands, hoping & praying that maybe this time against all odds Maiden's or Priest's or Slayer's or Metallica's or Megadeth's or Opeth's new album might actually be good. When I feel a band has truly shit the bed I just bid them a good day wish them luck and move on with my life. I don't bother checking out new albums from those bands because time is short and I already have much more new shit I'd really like to listen to than there are hours in the day.

Like I said earlier, if by some miracle one of these legacy bands from my youth (relatively speaking) does somehow manage to make a legit comeback and release a banger of an album then I'm sure word will filter down to me sooner or later. But I have heard "the new XYZ album is a real return to form" and then had it not be anything of the sort more times than I can count. I'm not gonna keep falling for that shit, I need at least two sources that I respect to tell me one of those 80's bands' new album is good before I'd even consider looking into it.

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I'm not pointing fingers at you, or your words. I described what I see on sites you claim not to even visit. Many people hate for hates sake. They talk negatively about albums they haven't even heard based on previous albums they didn't like. They belittle others for liking bands they no longer like. They hate bands for creating a brand while they hate other bands for not sticking with a brand. If people want to do that fine, I'm not going to stop them, but just as they seem to think it's okay to judge something made today based only on something made yesterday I'm fine with giving bands a chance, or even three if that's they way it works.

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You see now that's where I agree it gets really stupid. This sport metalheads have invented of belittling others for liking bands they no longer like or for liking bands that play sub-genres they never even liked at all is beyond idiotic. I'm fine with ragging on bands you can't stand if it's all in good fun. I think criticizing a bands' albums or any type of art at all for that matter is fair game and I do it all the time. But I say keep the criticism about the music. There's no need to take things personal and denigrate the fans or even the artists themselves just to make yourself feel superior. To each his own, there's no right or wrong here, we should all listen to what we like and what speaks to us period, full stop.

That's the beauty of the modern digital age imo where a bunch of music lovers can congregate on an internet forum to talk music n shit while we are mostly all in our own private listening spaces doing our own thing. I couldn't possibly be motivated to care what drek others are listening to at any given time as long as I don't have to listen to it with them. I might make a lot of noise about hating anything dissonant or progressive or technical or avant-garde and of course we all know I loathe the dreaded commercial metal, pop music and radio rock. But honestly at the end of the day everyone needs to listen to what makes them happy and try not to worry so much about what others may think. Criticizing someone else's taste in music is really about as dumb as criticizing their taste in food. Why would anyone possibly care what crap the other guy likes to eat as long as they don't have to eat the stuff they don't care for with him?

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I'm an Aussie I love a good shit stir, or even a mild piss take and I don't get offended easily but it's always had me fucked why so many metal heads seem to think kicking the shit out of someone elses taste in metal is the norm. I don't think it happens with other forms of music.

I also don't have a problem with people not liking what I do but I do like finding new stuff and one of the ways I do that is to read reviews. But too often people don't review the album. They are saying stuff like album 2 sucks because album 1 sucked, without even listening to album 2. Or they just post loads of negative shit that has little to do with the actual topic. I suppose some do it to get a reaction, some might do it just because they are morons, whatever the reason it's a hatred/dislike that doesn't really serve a purpose. Disliking something, even hating it with a passion is fair enough, but hate just for the sake of it, or maybe even internet points, seems to be a sport for some.

 

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I'm the sucker who will listen a few times before I buy new stuff from bands I've liked in the past hoping to like there stuff again. There is disappointment at times but there are times when I come around to the newer stuff which makes it worth it. I just could not get the opeth prog stuff but the penny has dropped re this for me. Imo it's good and I respect others to have completely different opinions about it. 

Obviously I can't stand it when metal fans belittle other metal fans for liking bands they don't. That just sucks.I try to avoid such people.  For me I only say I don't like the music at the moment and it's just my opinion. In fact I'm pleased music I don't  get has fans.   

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The ones I find funny, and there's been a few over the years, is when a keyboard warrior slags the crap out of some album only to have a band member come and ask them what the problems were and suddenly the keyboard warrior goes all quiet. I've seen a few band members loose it on forums because people didn't like their output, that's kind of funny too.

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