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When metal bands p*ssed off there fans by changing style ???????


blaaacdoommmmfan
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11 hours ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Is there a website for so called worst albums?  

Billboard Top 40?

Over the years I have recollections of conversations where worst albums from bands were discussed and I was often surprised by how many of the 'worst' albums I liked, or at very least could put up with. Strangely enough I can't remember any single conversation right now but I do know they happened. I'd actually be interested to see such a website and see which albums I should be thinking of as bad :)

 

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2 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

Billboard Top 40?

Over the years I have recollections of conversations where worst albums from bands were discussed and I was often surprised by how many of the 'worst' albums I liked, or at very least could put up with. Strangely enough I can't remember any single conversation right now but I do know they happened. I'd actually be interested to see such a website and see which albums I should be thinking of as bad :)

 

Billboard top40 😁good one. 

 Sometimes there's some good ones in there like slayers relentless album, and some pantera albums. Think some of those went No1, though slayer got there once with about 10 sales for relentless🤣 we all know people don't buy music like they used to. 

That's the billboard40 for me. Mostly Listenable but largely forgettable. I'm guessing deep purple,pink floyd would do well in billboard chart. There bands I like although rarely listen to. 

 

 

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It seems in many of the circles I've been in the Slayer album that cops the most flak is God Hates Us All. But I actually like that album.

I will admit that there has been times where I will talk up an album more than it deserves just because some people have to be so vocal about how bad it is. I don't do it for the band, I do it to be a shit stirrer.

 

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On 1/3/2022 at 8:59 AM, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

That's good idea. Motley's crues debut I think is one terrible album to go gold sales. I don't get why people like that one and they do. The overuse of cowbell on one track is the highlight for me. 😊. Virtual XI yeah well done for giving that a go. Not heard it.   

What's next on your list.  I've got suspicions that heritage by opeth is considered there worst album by metal fans yet I quite like it.

Is there a website for so called worst albums?  

All I ever hear is how good that Motley Crue debut is. Not actually heard it myself so I might try that one day. Virtual XI was a struggle, though it has been getting some retrospective praise recently. It's certainly different, I'll give it that!

I'm going to give Forbidden by Black Sabbath a listen. God knows how that will go. Not heard many Opeth songs, I'll find time for Heritage :)

You could visit RateYourMusic for user-made lists of bad albums but they're not very good. There's a lack of actual criticism, all you get is ''shit album lol'' which isn't helpful haha.

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I have always found it quite impossible to take anyone else's word for what's good and what's bad. I really need to decide for myself on a case by case basis because I've noticed a pattern over the years that most other people just have the worst taste. And in the end unlike some people, I couldn't possibly give a flying fuck what most people think of a given album and what the consensus opinion might be because they're not there in my house or my car listening to it with me which means their opinions are completely irrelevant. My opinion is the only one that matters when deciding what goes into my ear holes. Consensus opinion is almost never right is what I've found, in general I'd have much better luck just doing the opposite of what the consensus is.

Which is not to say I don't enjoy trading recos with people because the social aspect is half the fun of this. It's cool when you find someone who likes a bunch of the same stuff you do. But even then you can't blindly trust all their recos either because I've never seen any two metalheads who agree right down the line on every last band. There's always a point at which your opinions will diverge. I need to hear everything for myself before I can make any kind of a judgment.

Fortunately in this age of streaming and YouTube it's possible to hear and demo almost anything with a click so nobody has to wonder for years what various bands might sound like because they're scared to take a chance on buying the record and not liking it and then being out that money for something they can't return. That's how it was when I was a kid, I remember there were certain albums I'd pick up every time I was in the record store and I'd stare at the covers intently looking for any little thing that might give me a clue as to whether they were heavy or lame. I became quite hesitant to take chances on things because I did buy some duds back in the day, I learned quite young that you can't always gauge heaviness by the cover. Nowadays I can hear everything first which makes buying music so much more efficient, if maybe a bit tougher on the ole wallet. Wish I could have been born later or they could have invented the internet sooner.

 

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On 1/3/2022 at 5:55 PM, KillaKukumba said:

It seems in many of the circles I've been in the Slayer album that cops the most flak is God Hates Us All. But I actually like that album.

I will admit that there has been times where I will talk up an album more than it deserves just because some people have to be so vocal about how bad it is. I don't do it for the band, I do it to be a shit stirrer.

 

I have a buddy Kevin that I've argued with many times over Divine Intervention which he loves and he can't understand why so many people make that cutoff after Seasons and dismiss DI. Personally I don't even like Seasons that much, I make my hard Slayer cutoff after South of Heaven.

But GHUA suffered not only from horrible brickwalled production but there were definitely a lack of good memorable riffs. The fact that Tom sounded like a coked up shouting Sam Kinneson on that record didn't help. But now in hindsight from 2022 I know there were far worse Slayer albums after DI and after GHUA. That last one Repentless was absolute dog shit. But I still make my listening cutoff after SoH because I figure differentiating between different degrees of terribleness seems pointless. 

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On 1/3/2022 at 10:55 PM, KillaKukumba said:

It seems in many of the circles I've been in the Slayer album that cops the most flak is God Hates Us All. But I actually like that album.

I will admit that there has been times where I will talk up an album more than it deserves just because some people have to be so vocal about how bad it is. I don't do it for the band, I do it to be a shit stirrer.

 

God hates us all features deciple. I like that song☺️not heard the album though. I wonder why it gets so much hate. I'd have thought diabolpus in musica whatever it's called gets more thumbs down as that was where they attempted more contemporary style of music from what I've read about album

What's people's  problems with the album God hates us all album

Good one re standing up for albums more positively than they deserve. I imagine you've had such heated talk you'd could almost cook a burger on it🍔 

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In my opinion (which is of course the right one :) ) it's because people love to share bad or negative news. It's not just GHUA, or even Slayer related. Bad/negative news always travels further and faster than good news.

Some albums/bands cop more than others and it only takes one person to mention a product/album/item etc and heaps of people will chime in with how much they hate it, they can even write essay length posts about how much they hate it. But less people will stand up and say they like it. Maybe they see it as a waste of time, maybe they can't be bothered, maybe they don't need to feel good about being part of the vocal opinion. Same thing regularly happens when bands like Metallica, or people Lars Ulrich get mentioned, or more country specific things like car brands or even politics. It's easier to hate than it is to like.

The strange thing is that no one is wrong, we are all allowed opinions. But there are some of us who will go to the end of the earth to try and convince others they aren't wrong. Sometimes that is in the form of discussion, but often it's in the form of "this is my opinion and if you don't agree there is something wrong with you". Some people even go as far as adding expletives and derogatory names to try and prove their opinion is the right one, they are the ones that it's fun to disagree with because you know when they start calling you 80's style insults they've run out of steam to actually discuss the point they think is so correct.


 

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I dunno maybe it's an age thing or maybe not, but it just doesn't bother me or phase me in the slightest when other people badmouth and berate music I happen to like. That's their opinion and they're absolutely entitled to it, right or wrong or whatever, at the end of the day what the fuck do I really care if someone else doesn't like something that I do? I probably hate much of what they like as well but what does that prove? Nothing! People have been hating on my music since I was a teenager in the 70's and it hasn't deterred me one centimeter yet. I would even defend someone else's right to hate music I love. It's not like anyone is ever gonna be able to talk anyone else out of liking the music that they do, it's all just a lot of gum flapping at the end of the day.

Yet it's true sometimes I will let myself be baited into defending my music, but in my case that usually means defending an entire sub-genre of blackened goat filth or something like that against attacks from people who don't like or understand it, so they dismiss it. Especially when the attack is from someone I know who I think should know better. It is certainly their right to feel that way, but I reckon it's my right to set them straight on things. The one that I really can't seem to resist is the classic but mistaken "You just hate it because it's popular!" accusation. Strawman arguments wind me up like nothing else, I can't seem to let them slide. It's almost never just a matter of "this band/album sucks!" vs "no they're/it's good!" Because it's one thing just to state your position on the merits of an album or band or something but to argue it into the ground like you're trying to convince someone is utterly pointless. State your case and move on.

But see the thing is to me having a friendly music based argument among your buddies or even with casual acquaintances on the internet is 100% recreational. Call me kooky but I fucking love me a good argument/debate over shit that doesn't matter just for the fun of it. Because to me as a veteran of countless internet discussions, arguments, flame ups and debates, arguing/debating this shit is pure fun and entertainment, it's how I relax at night. Because I mean it's just sound waves going into your earholes that we're talking about here, right? These aren't crucially important life and death matters. 

I suspect many other people feel differently though, I think a lot of people find arguing and confrontations quite unpleasant, even online. Just because it's friendly and playful on my end doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be taken that way on the other end, especially here on the internet when important details like tone of voice and facial expressions are not part of the equation. That's why I try to confine my musical debates and arguments to adversaries whom I already kinda know a bit and I've decided that I think they can handle it and won't take any of it personally. When it becomes clear that someone I know does take these things personally I'll make a mental note to tone it down with them in the future. I'm a nice guy, I don't want to hurt or alienate anyone. I just get passionate about my music.

I sometimes suspect that maybe as an abrasive New Yorker what might seem like perfectly normal and reasonable things to say in a debate might sometimes come across to others as nasty or angry or beligerent or crossing the line in some way, and I can tell you it's really not ever meant that way. I am a shit-stirrer and a button-pusher by nature, I can admit that, but it's always meant in a friendly joking way. Which is not to say that if I badmouth a band's music I don't really mean it, because I definitely do. But I really feel that it's everyone's irrefutable right to not like something and say as much in no uncertain terms. Otherwise why do we even bother to talk about music with strangers on the internet if not to voice our opinions both positive and negative?  But I don't ever resort to ad hominem personal attacks on whomever I'm debating, that's bullshit for debate weaklings. I always keep it on point and about the music. And I really think more people need to keep in mind that whatever someone might say about a work of art or a piece of music is just their opinion, that should totally go without saying and shouldn't need a disclaimer each and every time.

2 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

The strange thing is that no one is wrong, we are all allowed opinions. But there are some of us who will go to the end of the earth to try and convince others they aren't wrong. Sometimes that is in the form of discussion, but often it's in the form of "this is my opinion and if you don't agree there is something wrong with you". Some people even go as far as adding expletives and derogatory names to try and prove their opinion is the right one, they are the ones that it's fun to disagree with because you know when they start calling you 80's style insults they've run out of steam to actually discuss the point they think is so correct.

In response to this paragraph I just want to ask, did you ever stop to think that some people who you may read as stating their opinions as fact using strong language might be fully aware that these are just their opinions and they assume everyone else is aware of that too? I think some people just write that way and they assume that everyone understands this is simply their way of stating their opinions. Shouldn't that just go without saying? Because what judgements can anyone actually make about a piece of music that amount to any more or any less than just their opinion?  Just a thought. I'm not defending the ad hominem attacks though, I agree that's juvenile and uncalled for and only serves to weaken your case and make you look stupid.

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I know exactly how that sounded and worded it appropriately for a relatively PC forum where such words would get a person banned (and rightly so). I'm not talking about words like fuck or shit, even combo words that combine parts of the anatomy. My reference was to stuff I wouldn't type here, for example, alternate names for gay people, names for black people, the sort of words that died the death they deserved back in the 80's or even earlier.  Sure, they are only words and words don't hurt me, but if that's the best a person can do, then it's not a great argument/discussion even if it's an opinion.

I don't really think calling someone a dumbfuck for not agreeing shines the speaker in a particularly great light and it certainly doesn't prove fact, but I'm not offended by it. However on the other side of the fence there is millions out there who will make a statement like "X album sucks, the production sucks, the cover sucks and your a stupid <three letter word starting with f for gay> for thinking otherwise" (complete with bad spelling of you're), and they'll make it ad naseum about topic after topic. That might well be a stated opinion, it might even be right on the first three points, but the fourth point, right or wrong, negates the first three in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

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I completely agree with what you're saying here Kuke, I guess I just don't understand why you'd want to frequent places that routinely sunk to that base level? You've gotta figure it's mostly very young people who are enamoured with using all the filthiest dirtiest most offensive words they can think of just to offend because they're anonymous behind their keyboards and can get away with it. They're probably laughing their asses off thinking they got you good not realizing or caring how idiotic, immature and pathetic they've made themselves look. I've really never been on any forum that has been like what you describe, it's usually a bunch of middle aged men who have at least some basic level of respect for one another. I guess I don't get around the web much, but I've found that one forum at a time is usually enough to meet my needs and is what works best for me. I like to get to know who I'm posting with at least on some surface level. All the bigger well known metal sites seem to be geared toward the mainstream which is understandable, but I have little to no interest in that so I don't bother even looking.

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Not everyone finds this place on their first day on the internet :)

I've been a member of a lot of forums, some I'm no doubt still a member of even though I don't visit them. I remember being a member on Megadeth Arizona which was one of the first metal forums on the interwebs, before that I was on news groups and BBS, back when it took an hour to share a dot matrix image of Samantha Fox's tits. Over the years some close, some loose people and become ghost towns others do out live their usefulness. There was a black/viking/death metal forum a few years ago which was invite only and they were a good source for information about bands not making the news sites, but the place was full of white supremacists and morons. I didn't go there for their beliefs, damn, I couldn't keep up if I tried, but I did go there to find music information. That site closed down and I haven't really found a need to look for others like it but I like to spend time just sitting and reading through stuff so a busy forum, even if I have to ignore some bullshit, works for me from time to time.

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On 1/5/2022 at 1:04 PM, Karambit said:

All I ever hear is how good that Motley Crue debut is. Not actually heard it myself so I might try that one day. Virtual XI was a struggle, though it has been getting some retrospective praise recently. It's certainly different, I'll give it that!

I'm going to give Forbidden by Black Sabbath a listen. God knows how that will go. Not heard many Opeth songs, I'll find time for Heritage :)

You could visit RateYourMusic for user-made lists of bad albums but they're not very good. There's a lack of actual criticism, all you get is ''shit album lol'' which isn't helpful haha.

Well that's why the motley crue debut went gold. Not for me any way. I prefer shout at the devil. You should give it a go. 

Black Sabbath is called forbidden for a reason 😁will be interested if you like it. Heritage is in my opinion a prog rock album. The deep purple, and Ian Anderson inspired tracks I liked. I'm still hearing that opeth sound there too☺️

Yeah will check out that website you mentioned. The comedy reviews don't help. Sometimes a well written bad review may get me interested especially if there negatives are positives for me. Have you found that with reviews. 

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4 hours ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Well that's why the motley crue debut went gold. Not for me any way. I prefer shout at the devil. You should give it a go. 

Black Sabbath is called forbidden for a reason 😁will be interested if you like it. Heritage is in my opinion a prog rock album. The deep purple, and Ian Anderson inspired tracks I liked. I'm still hearing that opeth sound there too☺️

Yeah will check out that website you mentioned. The comedy reviews don't help. Sometimes a well written bad review may get me interested especially if there negatives are positives for me. Have you found that with reviews. 

Shout at the Devil it is then, cheers :) The Black Sabbath album name does seem appropriate haha! Not expecting much tbh. Opeth is a band that I'll need to spend more time with, especially since they're diverse with their sound.

It's a valley of shitposts on RYM. Among them you'll find fair reviews but it takes time. Yeah I agree with you on that, sometimes a negative aspect for one person is a dream come true for me. Bit like when some people say obZen by Meshuggah is ''basic'' and not up to their previous work. I personally loved it.

Here's a list that you may find useful: https://rateyourmusic.com/list/TechnicalProgDeathThrash/the-best-and-worst-albums-of-metal-bands/1/

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2 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

The first page looked okay, but when the second page shows Between the Buried and Me I gave up, they don't fit into any of those categories.

Never listened to them myself so that's interesting. Only the second page though? Plenty more awaits lol.

(Just a quick note, I'm not the guy who made the list, just someone who found it).

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Kudos to the people who put together lists so long, I guess if I listed every band I've listened to I could make one that long too, but for me, and I know others will be different, I loose interest when the list is that long. That's not to say there wont be some gems on it, but with my short attention span I'd get bored after about 2 pages and with my old man memory I'd forget what was on page 1 by the time I got to page 2.

 

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58 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Kudos to the people who put together lists so long, I guess if I listed every band I've listened to I could make one that long too, but for me, and I know others will be different, I loose interest when the list is that long. That's not to say there wont be some gems on it, but with my short attention span I'd get bored after about 2 pages and with my old man memory I'd forget what was on page 1 by the time I got to page 2.

 

Fair point. Sometimes less is more.

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On 1/8/2022 at 11:11 PM, Karambit said:

Shout at the Devil it is then, cheers :) The Black Sabbath album name does seem appropriate haha! Not expecting much tbh. Opeth is a band that I'll need to spend more time with, especially since they're diverse with their sound.

It's a valley of shitposts on RYM. Among them you'll find fair reviews but it takes time. Yeah I agree with you on that, sometimes a negative aspect for one person is a dream come true for me. Bit like when some people say obZen by Meshuggah is ''basic'' and not up to their previous work. I personally loved it.

Here's a list that you may find useful: https://rateyourmusic.com/list/TechnicalProgDeathThrash/the-best-and-worst-albums-of-metal-bands/1/

Shout at the devil is my favourite motley crue album although the cover I'm not a fan. It makes me cringe.

How was black Sabbath album you mentioned. Any good.

Opeth are worth a listen. There an eclectic band. I like them as they played lots of different genre of music in there career  but foundations wAS always  metal and since heritage a prog rock sound to my ear. In my mouth mind there bit unique especially the early albums which some say is there worst stuff but I rate highly.  Orchid album named as contains loads of variety of music and  there's loads of type orchid apparently

Yes bad reviews are not always bad. We're connoisseurs as we agree on that 😁

Not heard that obZen album so worth a listen. I've heard good things about that album. My best mate has been rather keen on there music for ages. I've known about there music for almost 20 years but have not really listened. Everyone has bands like that. I'm sure you got some bands in that heard of but not listened to  there music much category

 

Thanks for the link for rate your music   trawl through those reviews😁

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/22/2022 at 12:12 PM, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Thanks for rate your music. It's most interesting. Searching through bands and seeing what the ratings are. Then working out my favourite and weakest album

No worries :) Btw I'll give you my thoughts on Forbidden in the coming days.

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On 1/25/2022 at 4:38 PM, Karambit said:

No worries :) Btw I'll give you my thoughts on Forbidden in the coming days.

I look forward to hearing what you think of forbidden. I will give deaths spiritual healing another listen. Didn't think it was that bad. It's the lowest rated album of there's. The cover I reckon is hilarious but in a good. Way😁

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