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When metal bands p*ssed off there fans by changing style ???????


blaaacdoommmmfan
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On 8/18/2022 at 12:38 AM, navybsn said:

I'm definitely a fan of those bands. I grew up with them as they were breaking. My point was they're all shitty singers, but those bands wouldn't be the same without those voices at the front. You can't hear Dave or Tom without instantly knowing the band even if it's a song you are unfamiliar with. IMO, they make the band. You can always replace a guitarist or drummer, but you have a much harder time replacing a lead singer (see Anthrax for instance). They were never the focus of those bands as GG said, but I argue they wouldn't be the same without them. Personally, I love old Megadeth, Metallica, and Slayer. They all jumped the shark around 1990 though.

What attracted people to those bands was the riffs and aggression. Gotta remember that before these guys there really wasn't much available to the wider world heavier than Maiden or Priest. Sure Bathory, Celtic Frost, Fate, but they weren't easily digestible for most in the early days if people even knew about them. No internet to spread the word and no major distribution or promotion in retail shops. That started to change (at least in my area) around the time these bands started releasing their best stuff. Probably different in the major urban centers, but I can say as someone who isn't from one of those that shit like this was unknown in podunk. We latched onto that stuff like a pitbull. Like the first time you hear the music of your people. So some of their continuing success is nostalgia even from people who no longer listen to metal. Some is generational because our kids heard it from us and liked it. Some is just metal/cultural because they're bands you are supposed to like a la Motorhead and Sabbath.

Have to agree on Chuck Billy. Lukewarm on Blitz. Killian is fucking unlistenable as is the guy from Toxik. Zetro doesn't bother me but I could care less about Exodus in the first place. I would add that none of the big German bands had decent singers either. Neither did any of the second wave of thrash acts like Coroner, Sadus, et al. I won't kick a thrash band to the curb because the singer sucks, but if they don't bring the heat on the riffs, they go straight out. 

Megadave and mettalica Jim are good vocalists for me at least even if not so many of us agree with me I'm sticking by this one bit like when I was on jury service and everyone supported other verdict but I stuck to my position. Defiant. They are unique I'd agree with you on that.

You'd be right re music. It's so easy to get so much music these days. So much choice.  I could have got quality music in the 90s but I didn't as I just stubbornly bought the mainstream crap as was cheaper and I liked it somewhat.   Which is of course my error. Oops 🫣 live and learn. 

Course in a fight who would win. James or megadave. And which band is your favourite of the big 4?

 

On 8/18/2022 at 2:01 AM, KillaKukumba said:

I'm sure there would be some jolt if Dave did got back to Metallica but I doubt the music would improve. Just the same as Dave dictates what happens in 'deth, Lars dictates what happening in Metallica. Lars wouldn't listen to Dave, Dave would have to assimilate to Lars and the music he chooses to play, therefore it would never happen. I also doubt Dave could tell Lars any 'hard truths' that Lars hasn't already ignored from other people. Lars' hard truth is that he likes what Metallica is doing and it wont matter who else is in the band that's what they are playing.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that. I struggled through the latest Toxik once and then saw some reviews and thought I must have been missing something so I gave it a second go. Bloody hell he's bad.

 

Your forgetting megadave would build an understanding with Lars that there music needs to change a bit. Might require a ko by mega Dave but that's his game right💥🥊

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55 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Course in a fight who would win. James or megadave.

Neither, they'd both fall into each others arms and hug each other until Lars came along and pried James away.

56 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Your forgetting megadave would build an understanding with Lars that there music needs to change a bit. Might require a ko by mega Dave but that's his game right💥🥊

Two of the biggest egos in metal and you think either would succumb to the other's way of thinking? Even as recent as this week Megadave's been in press, or it might have been on some podcast, showing how bitter he is about the split 40 years ago. Sure he says there is more important things like family and god but he's still not totally over it. I'm sure he doesn't want to be in Metallica, and now days he's more focused on the songs and solos they 'stole' but he's far from over it. Meanwhile Lars just loves any attention knowing full well he's not a good enough drummer to play the shit Dave's capable of writing.

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1 hour ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Megadave and Metallica Jim are good vocalists for me at least even if not so many of us agree with me I'm sticking by this one bit like when I was on jury service and everyone supported other verdict but I stuck to my position. Defiant. They are unique I'd agree with you on that.

Course in a fight who would win. James or Megadave? And which band is your favourite of the big 4?

Dave Mustaine would fuck James' shit up before James even knew what hit him. Then he'd take out Kirk and Lars too without even breaking a sweat, that is if they hadn't already run away in fear. Mr Trujillo looks like he might be able to give Dave a run for his money, but Dave does hold several black belts and he has that inner rage that comes out when he's drunk or he feels provoked. On the other hand he will be 61 in a few weeks and he's been looking about 10 years older than that lately, so who knows.

I liked James as a singer 35 years ago, but even you'd have to admit his voice is just not the same anymore.

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On 8/24/2022 at 12:34 AM, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Dave Mustaine would fuck James' shit up before James even knew what hit him. Then he'd take out Kirk and Lars too without even breaking a sweat, that is if they hadn't already run away in fear. Mr Trujillo looks like he might be able to give Dave a run for his money, but Dave does hold several black belts and he has that inner rage that comes out when he's drunk or he feels provoked. On the other hand he will be 61 in a few weeks and he's been looking about 10 years older than that lately, so who knows.

I liked James as a singer 35 years ago, but even you'd have to admit his voice is just not the same anymore.

I do think James vocals are better 35 years ago but I think the vocals are more than good enough today. The music is not far off being good. I don't like the styles they do these days. They are very much a very overrated band imo for there albums after justice. I don't think there far off doing good music again they just need the few percent improvement. They need an inspiration weather it be new member or producer. Someone they'd listen to and who's interested in making quality music and not just making albums that will sell well. They seem to get a lot of yes men.

Re a fight I agree the bassist Trujillo would probably be only member able to defeat megadave that's assuming there body guards aren't around. Even megadave would not fare well against former navy seals and other super tough bodyguards

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6 hours ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

I do think James vocals are better 35 years ago but I think the vocals are more than good enough today. The music is not far off being good. I don't like the styles they do these days. They are very much a very overrated band imo for there albums after justice. I don't think there far off doing good music again they just need the few percent improvement. They need an inspiration weather it be new member or producer. Someone they'd listen to and who's interested in making quality music and not just making albums that will sell well. They seem to get a lot of yes men.

Re a fight I agree the bassist Trujillo would probably be only member able to defeat megadave that's assuming there body guards aren't around. Even Megadave would not fare well against former navy seals and other super tough bodyguards

"Not far off being good" what does that even mean exactly Sweets? The music would be good if only it was a little better but it's not, so it isn't? Isn't that like saying "that dead man over there is not far off being alive if only he were breathing and had a pulse?"

"They need an inspiration" Sweets they're old men now, they've had their creative hey-day and like 99% of other metal bands, whatever creative spark they had in the 80's is long gone now. There are always exceptions of course, but in light of the fact that they've sucked so hard for so long do you really think they have another Master of Puppets in them? How many bands in any genre have you known to be really good, and then be not good for over 30 years and then just magically pull a killer album out of their asses? Not saying it couldn't happen, but what are the odds? Hardwired was probably the best thing they've done since AJFA, you really think they could top that? James will be 60 next year, how many more albums do you think they will make knowing he's already worth $300 mil and doesn't really need the money, and knowing that after making 5 albums in the first 8 years they've only made 5 more albums in the last 31 years? I'd guess you'll be lucky to get one more out of him so I hope for your sake it's a good one.

And MegaDave is an old man now too Sweets, I was just being tongue-in-cheek (taking the piss) with my fight scenario. I don't actually think anyone would want to see any of these older dudes fight. I'm amazed that anyone still wants to see them play music. But 30 years ago Dave could have taken any of them. Metallica were drinkers, not fighters.

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15 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

What's the "Sweets" thing?

I used to have an old American lady, even older than you, constantly call me Sweets when I confused her or made her question something with my writing styles.

Man has a sweet tooth Orca. He gobbles up massive 10kg bags of candy (that's 22 pounds for the Yanks) which I believe they call "sweets" where he lives in the UK. I know they call candy "lollies" in NZ, not sure what you Aussies call it. I certainly don't mean "Sweets" the same way your old lady friend meant it like "sweetheart" or "sweetie."

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23 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

"Not far off being good" what does that even mean exactly Sweets? The music would be good if only it was a little better but it's not, so it isn't? Isn't that like saying "that dead man over there is not far off being alive if only he were breathing and had a pulse?"

"They need an inspiration" Sweets they're old men now, they've had their creative hey-day and like 99% of other metal bands, whatever creative spark they had in the 80's is long gone now. There are always exceptions of course, but in light of the fact that they've sucked so hard for so long do you really think they have another Master of Puppets in them? How many bands in any genre have you known to be really good, and then be not good for over 30 years and then just magically pull a killer album out of their asses? Not saying it couldn't happen, but what are the odds? Hardwired was probably the best thing they've done since AJFA, you really think they could top that? James will be 60 next year, how many more albums do you think they will make knowing he's already worth $300 mil and doesn't really need the money, and knowing that after making 5 albums in the first 8 years they've only made 5 more albums in the last 31 years? I'd guess you'll be lucky to get one more out of him so I hope for your sake it's a good one.

And MegaDave is an old man now too Sweets, I was just being tongue-in-cheek (taking the piss) with my fight scenario. I don't actually think anyone would want to see any of these older dudes fight. I'm amazed that anyone still wants to see them play music. But 30 years ago Dave could have taken any of them. Metallica were drinkers, not fighters.

It's not the same as your example in my opinion. Yours is black and white where as some of there previous releases could have been worked on some more till it at least they  were an enjoyable listening experience even If I don't necessarily like the music. I know that makes no sense. For instance if I I'm walking down the street and some catchy pop music is playing. I will say to myself it sucks but it is very catchy and easy to listen to and I can see why loads of  people like the music even though I hate it. I don't just like metal but most other genres of music I like has a similar sound to the kind of metal I like which is various genres of doom and black metal. I tried listening to white metal but never found anything that I liked. But with  recent mettalica albums after justice I just find them ok to listen to but not fantastic so I hardly ever play them. Re mettalica releasing another album to top puppets. Ok it almost certainly won't happen but you never know. I live in hope. Not much mind you. Your right there getting on now and it's not likely there next album will be anything to talk about. It's a shame as they were so good. 

 

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24 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

It's not the same as your example in my opinion. Yours is black and white where as some of their previous releases could have been worked on some more till it at least they  were an enjoyable listening experience even If I don't necessarily like the music. I know that makes no sense. For instance if I I'm walking down the street and some catchy pop music is playing. I will say to myself it sucks but it is very catchy and easy to listen to and I can see why loads of  people like the music even though I hate it. I don't just like metal but most other genres of music I like has a similar sound to the kind of metal I like which is various genres of doom and black metal. I tried listening to white metal but never found anything that I liked. But with  recent Metallica albums after justice I just find them ok to listen to but not fantastic so I hardly ever play them. Re mettalica releasing another album to top puppets. Ok it almost certainly won't happen but you never know. I live in hope. Not much mind you. Your right there getting on now and it's not likely there next album will be anything to talk about. It's a shame as they were so good. 

 

Dude all bands come to an end. I think bands like the Beatles and Zeppelin had the right idea, do your thing for a decade or so and then call it a day. Move on and do something else. I'll never understand why some people want to stay loyal to a band and follow them and keep buying their stuff for 40 years or more. I think after 10 or 15 years most bands should disband and let the members go their own ways and form new projects which can often be a lot more interesting imo than if they stayed with their same original legacy band and just kept pumping out albums under that same banner for 40+ years. It's good to change things up sometimes, and I think after a long time seeing the same old faces day in and day out that working with different people can sometimes get the creative juices flowing again.

Think about it Sweets, Metallica kicked out Dave just weeks before they recorded their first album, so he went and formed his own band and then thrash fans got two bands out of that deal, not to mention years and years of pointless arguments and comparisons. We all know two bands are better than one, right? How's about if the "Big 4" were forced to break up every 10 years? Like term limits for politicians. Break them up and then we could put all the musicians' names in a hat and have a random drawing to make new bands. The 4 drummers each get their own band and then fill in the slots for guitarists and singers by random drawing. Throw in a limited number of wild card musicians from lesser known bands. We could call it Big 4 Bingo. Think of all the cool albums we could have gotten over the years if we could have shuffled the musicians every decade and constantly had new and interesting combos?

I guess some legacy bands have split up and tried to go their own ways (Priest, Maiden, Sabbath) and then financial concerns dictated that they suck it up, patch up their differences and get back together again so they could milk their fans out of every last dollar they possibly could. But I've gotta say personally I find it kind of sad to see these old bands from the 70's and 80's out there still trying to be relevant and stay active and keep releasing albums when judging by the declining quality of the music most of them should have just hung it up years ago. 

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Studios should hire security guards and when bands rock up their credentials are checked. If they haven't been together 15 years they are let in, but once they hit the 15 year mark it's, "Sorry guys but we can't let you in, your creative juices have dried up and the only way you can get them back is by forming separate bands."

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8 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Studios should hire security guards and when bands rock up their credentials are checked. If they haven't been together 15 years they are let in, but once they hit the 15 year mark it's, "Sorry guys but we can't let you in, your creative juices have dried up and the only way you can get them back is by forming separate bands."

I'd say to be on the safe side we just lock them up after 15 years so they can't just sneak in around the back door somebody conveniently 'forgot' to lock, or slip past the secuity checkpoint with a fake moustache and a fake ID or something. But some people might think that's a little too extreme.

Haven't figured out a solution for those bands who have their own home recording studios. I'll keep working on it.

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1 minute ago, KillaKukumba said:

But even you said they should be able to form new groups, locking them up may prevent the worlds next Supergroup!

It's OK, they could still form their supergroups in prison! I wouldn't lock them up straight away on their frst offenses though, I'd give 'em a few chances. But after 4 or 5 violations once they've proven that they can't be trusted to follow the rules then that's it - off to the clink with them.

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Prisons would become the new recording studios. The music industry has always been run by crooks, this way they'll be in their element.

4 or 5 violations over the hundreds of potential bands that such a ruling might effect could still result it a huge pile of records that shouldn't have been recorded. Is that really a risk worth taking?

 

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2 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

So locking up all the offenders is not going to fix the problem?

Not with everyone and their brother having pro tools recording capabilities in their home studios. Any reasonably successful mainstream recording artist would likely have at least one member that had some type of professional grade set-up at home where they could record stuff on the d/l. And these are just the type of complacent dinosaur legacy bands that we're trying to break up. There has to be another way other than commercial recording studios to get them to surface so we could monitor them. 

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Presumably other countries also have the same problem we do with over crowded prisons, and prisons aren't cheap to build, so incarceration doesn't appear to be complete answer either. Even stashing them all in retirement homes probably wont work because at some point they will be allowed outside. Doing anything may also increase the chance of black market musician trading making it even harder to police. We need a blanket solution that catches them all, but that solution just isn't popping up yet.

 

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On 8/27/2022 at 12:43 AM, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Dude all bands come to an end. I think bands like the Beatles and Zeppelin had the right idea, do your thing for a decade or so and then call it a day. Move on and do something else. I'll never understand why some people want to stay loyal to a band and follow them and keep buying their stuff for 40 years or more. I think after 10 or 15 years most bands should disband and let the members go their own ways and form new projects which can often be a lot more interesting imo than if they stayed with their same original legacy band and just kept pumping out albums under that same banner for 40+ years. It's good to change things up sometimes, and I think after a long time seeing the same old faces day in and day out that working with different people can sometimes get the creative juices flowing again.

Think about it Sweets, Metallica kicked out Dave just weeks before they recorded their first album, so he went and formed his own band and then thrash fans got two bands out of that deal, not to mention years and years of pointless arguments and comparisons. We all know two bands are better than one, right? How's about if the "Big 4" were forced to break up every 10 years? Like term limits for politicians. Break them up and then we could put all the musicians' names in a hat and have a random drawing to make new bands. The 4 drummers each get their own band and then fill in the slots for guitarists and singers by random drawing. Throw in a limited number of wild card musicians from lesser known bands. We could call it Big 4 Bingo. Think of all the cool albums we could have gotten over the years if we could have shuffled the musicians every decade and constantly had new and interesting combos?

I guess some legacy bands have split up and tried to go their own ways (Priest, Maiden, Sabbath) and then financial concerns dictated that they suck it up, patch up their differences and get back together again so they could milk their fans out of every last dollar they possibly could. But I've gotta say personally I find it kind of sad to see these old bands from the 70's and 80's out there still trying to be relevant and stay active and keep releasing albums when judging by the declining quality of the music most of them should have just hung it up years ago. 

Big 4 bingo. That's good. That would have been interesting. I know your not expecting a response but I like this idea. Maybe after 10 years every band must do this😂complete random combinations until they decided to do something new. 

Kerry king in mettalica.  I'd like to hear more  darker heavier stuff from mettalica.   talica nation t shirts too😄 hammet in megadeth would be interesting. hammer Hammett would be able to cope in megadeth because imo he's a very good guitarist and he will  be able to play along to megadaves tunes and wouldn't rock the boat which is probably the most important aspect although would his overuse of the wah peddle get him kicked out 🤔

 your right we got two bands out of this when megadave left. I probably need to let if go. 

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