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When metal bands p*ssed off there fans by changing style ???????


blaaacdoommmmfan
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49 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

I wouldn't say imploded, there is still plenty of people trading, but I really don't think metal fans are looking to use whatever crypto they have just to buy one of NFT's. This isn't even MegaIncs first run into NFT's. Ozzy got stung a year or two ago (although to what $$$ extent I don't really know). I think if Dave or Justis want to trade in crypto then that's what they should do, but I really can't see it being a great marketing tool.

 

Last I had checked bitcoins value dropped by a third, Aetherium or whatever that one is had dropped by almost half, if that’s not imploding I don’t know what is, I just find it absolutely hilarious how the cryptobros kept insisting it was the future of currency, how and FTEs would be how you would store the date your house one day etc

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One day things implode, the next they explode, its the way the numbers games work, especially one that is pretty much unregulated. Just like the stock exchange, a percentage of the population play and play to win, a percentage of those just put the money in, let someone else play and hope its a win, while the rest of the world sits back and does nothing. There is still plenty of people doing what they want with crypto and winning and there always will be. With many large banks and many online sites allowing for trade in crypto it will continue to grow, but it's doubtful that it will ever replace real money.

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On 8/9/2022 at 9:32 PM, navybsn said:

Megadeth wouldn't be the same band without Dave's distinctive voice. His combination of drug/booze addled antics and flat out hatred made the first few albums better. Gave them a little fire. Love him or hate him, no one else would sound right delivering those lyrics. I'd say the same for James and Tom Araya. They are unique characteristics of the band. Neither of those guys are "good singers", but they fit. Honestly, I can't name a "good" singer in a classic thrash band. All of their post 1990 material is meh at best, so no comment there. Dave did sound pretty good when I saw them last year, but check out the video from Hellfest this year....he looks ready for the retirement home.

There good enough singers to have legions of fans so they must be doing something right. Obviously not your thing. Who is good singer for you?  A return of megadave to Mettalica would give Jim and Lars a much needed jolt I'd have thought. Surely your with me in thinking that the music would improve with Dave m back in the fold. Tell them some hard truths when the songs needed more work or just fight. Is he still a fighter. I'm thinking yes from all the interviews I've seen with him. 

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28 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

There good enough singers to have legions of fans so they must be doing something right. Obviously not your thing. Who is good singer for you?  A return of megadave to Mettalica would give Jim and Lars a much needed jolt I'd have thought. Surely your with me in thinking that the music would improve with Dave m back in the fold. Tell them some hard truths when the songs needed more work or just fight. Is he still a fighter. I'm thinking yes from all the interviews I've seen with him. 

Could it not be that the music as a whole is attracts people to those bands? I mean let’s be real here James, Tom, and Dave certainly aren’t singers  the calibre of Halford, Dio, or Rob Lowe.

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7 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

They're good enough singers to have legions of fans, so they must be doing something right. Obviously not your thing. Who is good singer for you?  A return of Megadave to Metallica would give Jim and Lars a much needed jolt I'd have thought. Surely you're with me in thinking that the music would improve with Dave m back in the fold? Tell them some hard truths when the songs needed more work or just fight. Is he still a fighter? I'm thinking yes from all the interviews I've seen with him. 

Hypothetically you could plug anybody from history into Metallica I guess and put them behind the mic. Let's put Dio in there and see how he does! Fact is these dudes have all moved on since 1983. Metallica has their thing going on autopilot, they're all worth boatloads of money now and they don't have any need to tinker with their formula. MegaDave has his thing going and he sells wine now, probably makes more money from that than he does from Megadeth. There is no need or any good reason for any of them to join forces at this point. Whatever history they may have had in '82-'83 is ancient history now because it was 40 years ago! They're all just about ready for the retirement home now anyway. And I should know Sweets, I'm the same age as MegaDick and I didn't even abuse my body with alcohol and drugs for many years the way he did.

Would also like to point out that these legacy thrash bands having 'legions of fans' has very little if anything to do with the fact that they're such great singers. The singers were never the focus of the appeal of thrash metal, let's be serious here. And if you read his post again Navy didn't say it wasn't his thing, he just said all those first tier thrash bands from the 80's have shit singers. And I would definitely agree...except of course for Chuck Billy and Bobby Blitz. I'd single out those two dudes as being the exceptions. I've always enjoyed their vocals unlike MegaDave, Araya, Zetro, Belladonna, Killian, Connelly....and all the rest of those 80's thrash dudes.

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With regards to Metallica's change, I think the real issue is that it was so obviously commercially driven and went against everything the band had been saying for several years.  There's changing direction from an artistic perspective and then there's getting Bob Rock to produce your albums.

And they almost deliberately cut themselves off from the metal scene.  Metallica became the metal band normal non-metal listening people liked.  Modern Metallica is irrelevant to the metal scene. 

 

Megadave is still in the scene and he is still proud to be metal.   I listen to his radio show and he plays a lot of cool stuff.  Plus his music is still pretty good compared to so many other of his contemporaries. 

It's like Phil Anselmo - the dude's an arsehole but he really does love metal and has done a lot to promote it.

 

As for "better vocalists" the problem with most decent vocalists is that they lack sufficiently unique voices to stand out.  I mean look at Power Metal which attracts most decent singers who incidentally all sound the same.  Same applies to your average thrash or death or whatever vocalist.

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I'm definitely a fan of those bands. I grew up with them as they were breaking. My point was they're all shitty singers, but those bands wouldn't be the same without those voices at the front. You can't hear Dave or Tom without instantly knowing the band even if it's a song you are unfamiliar with. IMO, they make the band. You can always replace a guitarist or drummer, but you have a much harder time replacing a lead singer (see Anthrax for instance). They were never the focus of those bands as GG said, but I argue they wouldn't be the same without them. Personally, I love old Megadeth, Metallica, and Slayer. They all jumped the shark around 1990 though.

What attracted people to those bands was the riffs and aggression. Gotta remember that before these guys there really wasn't much available to the wider world heavier than Maiden or Priest. Sure Bathory, Celtic Frost, Fate, but they weren't easily digestible for most in the early days if people even knew about them. No internet to spread the word and no major distribution or promotion in retail shops. That started to change (at least in my area) around the time these bands started releasing their best stuff. Probably different in the major urban centers, but I can say as someone who isn't from one of those that shit like this was unknown in podunk. We latched onto that stuff like a pitbull. Like the first time you hear the music of your people. So some of their continuing success is nostalgia even from people who no longer listen to metal. Some is generational because our kids heard it from us and liked it. Some is just metal/cultural because they're bands you are supposed to like a la Motorhead and Sabbath.

Have to agree on Chuck Billy. Lukewarm on Blitz. Killian is fucking unlistenable as is the guy from Toxik. Zetro doesn't bother me but I could care less about Exodus in the first place. I would add that none of the big German bands had decent singers either. Neither did any of the second wave of thrash acts like Coroner, Sadus, et al. I won't kick a thrash band to the curb because the singer sucks, but if they don't bring the heat on the riffs, they go straight out. 

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Excellent post Navy.

Agree on your assessments and yes, Killian is indeed unlistenable!   

One of my favourite thrash albums of all time is Artillery's By Inheritance and Flemming Ronsdorf's vocals are some of the most bizarre in thrash.  I also dig Martin Walkyeir (Sabbat, Skyclad)  as a thrash vocalist though he just needed to learn to tone it down on Sabbat as they seemed like a wall of vocals.  The other odd one out I like is Mike Muir from Suicidal Tendencies in their thrash days.  He maintained a punk edge and helped make the band stick out (that and Rocky George's phenomenal guitar work).

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2 hours ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

There good enough singers to have legions of fans so they must be doing something right. Obviously not your thing. Who is good singer for you?  A return of megadave to Mettalica would give Jim and Lars a much needed jolt I'd have thought. Surely your with me in thinking that the music would improve with Dave m back in the fold. Tell them some hard truths when the songs needed more work or just fight. Is he still a fighter. I'm thinking yes from all the interviews I've seen with him. 

I'm sure there would be some jolt if Dave did got back to Metallica but I doubt the music would improve. Just the same as Dave dictates what happens in 'deth, Lars dictates what happening in Metallica. Lars wouldn't listen to Dave, Dave would have to assimilate to Lars and the music he chooses to play, therefore it would never happen. I also doubt Dave could tell Lars any 'hard truths' that Lars hasn't already ignored from other people. Lars' hard truth is that he likes what Metallica is doing and it wont matter who else is in the band that's what they are playing.

 

1 hour ago, navybsn said:

Killian is fucking unlistenable as is the guy from Toxik.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that. I struggled through the latest Toxik once and then saw some reviews and thought I must have been missing something so I gave it a second go. Bloody hell he's bad.

 

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1 hour ago, Dead1 said:

Excellent post Navy.

Agree on your assessments and yes, Killian is indeed unlistenable!   

One of my favourite thrash albums of all time is Artillery's By Inheritance and Flemming Ronsdorf's vocals are some of the most bizarre in thrash.  I also dig Martin Walkyeir (Sabbat, Skyclad)  as a thrash vocalist though he just needed to learn to tone it down on Sabbat as they seemed like a wall of vocals.  The other odd one out I like is Mike Muir from Suicidal Tendencies in their thrash days.  He maintained a punk edge and helped make the band stick out (that and Rocky George's phenomenal guitar work).

Never considered ST a legit thrash band. They're cross-over which I put in a different category. A punk band playing thrash inspired metal. I love the old stuff. Mikey was great until he became a cariacture. 

That Artillery album is good. That's the only one I can get down with his voice. Sabbat is decent but never blew me away. 

53 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that. I struggled through the latest Toxik once and then saw some reviews and thought I must have been missing something so I gave it a second go. Bloody hell he's bad.

 

The thing is that's not the original singer either. They went out and found somebody equally horrible as the first guy. I've never made it 2 songs deep in any of their sets I've been unfortunate enough to see, and I've even sat through Killian more than once.

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48 minutes ago, navybsn said:

Never considered ST a legit thrash band. They're cross-over which I put in a different category. A punk band playing thrash inspired metal. I love the old stuff. Mikey was great until he became a cariacture. 

There's precious little punk/hardcore left on albums like How Can I Laugh Tomorrow or Lights Camera Revolution.  By that stage ST are really like a more melodic Anthrax and are right at home next to Act III era Death Angel.*  They also sit well with Metal Church** and American Way era Sacred Reich*** or with some of the other more commercial thrash acts in late 1980s/early 1990s.

 

Agreed Mike became a joke, almost a mascot for his own band.  🙄

I tend to lump crossover as thrash cause so much of it overlaps that it gets hard to discern especially as the crossover bands became more refined be it Suicidal Tendencies or Nuclear Assault or even DRI (Eg Thrash Zone).  In fact Nuclear Assault and SOD were metal guys dabbling into punk/hardcore.

It gets even more confusing today with stuff like Power Trip, Toxic Holocaust, High Command and Enforced.

 

*Speaking of Death Angel, now Mark Osegueda's a superb vocalist!

**And whilst not quite thrash, both Mike Howe and David Wayne from Metal Church were great vocalists.

***Sacred Reich's Phil RInd has a very distinctive voice too.  His work on American Way is a big part of that album.

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7 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

But would you give him a Pepsi?

I'd give him just one Pepsi. No more, No less.

6 hours ago, Dead1 said:

There's precious little punk/hardcore left on albums like How Can I Laugh Tomorrow or Lights Camera Revolution.  By that stage ST are really like a more melodic Anthrax and are right at home next to Act III era Death Angel.*  They also sit well with Metal Church** and American Way era Sacred Reich*** or with some of the other more commercial thrash acts in late 1980s/early 1990s.

 

Agreed Mike became a joke, almost a mascot for his own band.  🙄

I tend to lump crossover as thrash cause so much of it overlaps that it gets hard to discern especially as the crossover bands became more refined be it Suicidal Tendencies or Nuclear Assault or even DRI (Eg Thrash Zone).  In fact Nuclear Assault and SOD were metal guys dabbling into punk/hardcore.

It gets even more confusing today with stuff like Power Trip, Toxic Holocaust, High Command and Enforced.

 

*Speaking of Death Angel, now Mark Osegueda's a superb vocalist!

**And whilst not quite thrash, both Mike Howe and David Wayne from Metal Church were great vocalists.

***Sacred Reich's Phil RInd has a very distinctive voice too.  His work on American Way is a big part of that album.

I probably define crossover in a weird way. To me, they're punk/hardcore bands playing thrash. Music to skate to back in the day. ST, Sacred Reich, MDC, DRI, Nuclear Assault, Biohazard all fit there in my mind, but I agree that the line gets blurry quick as most of them had moments where they were full bore thrash. So it really becomes arbitrary where you put them.

ST is headlining this weekend's gig along with Fate and Emperor. I wouldn't put them in the same tier, but I'm glad they are getting the recognition that they are these days. I mean it's basically just Mikey these days, but he's got a decent lineup of guys with him. Last I saw them, I enjoyed the set but felt bad for him. Age is catching up. Had a hard time singing a lot of the lyrics. He's a genuinely good dude though. Spent the whole day around the fest hanging out with the crowd even though most of the dumbass kids there were more interested in Rob Zombie and Shinedown had no clue who he was. I'll probably catch a few songs of their set before calling it a night.

7 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

I think Killian has gotten worse over the years, not just old like everyone else but worse. I could kind of put up with him in the early years but the last EP just did nothing for me

I don't get the popularity of Vio-lence. They have good turnout at fests. Never did anything for me.

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8 minutes ago, navybsn said:

I don't get the popularity of Vio-lence. They have good turnout at fests. Never did anything for me.

I assume it's nostalgia. Eternal Nightmare was a solid thrash album and they had all the time off for people to remember it. I was never a huge fan of Phil and Robb but they seem to a have a following who were screaming for Vio-lence's return. It has however seemed that the reunion has had problem after problem and not all of their own doing.

 

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13 hours ago, navybsn said:

 

ST is headlining this weekend's gig along with Fate and Emperor. I wouldn't put them in the same tier, but I'm glad they are getting the recognition that they are these days. I mean it's basically just Mikey these days, but he's got a decent lineup of guys with him. Last I saw them, I enjoyed the set but felt bad for him. Age is catching up. Had a hard time singing a lot of the lyrics. He's a genuinely good dude though. Spent the whole day around the fest hanging out with the crowd even though most of the dumbass kids there were more interested in Rob Zombie and Shinedown had no clue who he was. I'll probably catch a few songs of their set before calling it a night.

 

Real shame about ST.  Would've been awesome to see them live in their heyday.

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