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Women in metal


GothExplorer

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On 3/10/2020 at 6:59 PM, FatherAlabaster said:

This isn't a debate. You're just offering rhetoric and personal observations to back up your armchair musings and trying to bat down anyone who seems to have a different view. Can't call it a celebration either, the only thing you seem to be celebrating is your own writing.

It's hard to know where to start responding to this thread. It's essentially dishonest. It's not about "women in metal", it's about your opinions and the (limited) role you see for women in metal; and it's not about discussing "reasons" for your unsupported claim that women tend to do vocals rather than play instruments, because you seem to have it all figured out. You're just here to expound. I guess it's kind of clever to say you're interested in a "discussion" of some point, when you're actually taking it as a given and using it to support your other ideas, because it keeps the ball in your court and everyone else on their back foot. It lets you steer things towards the points you want to make. But it doesn't make for a good thread.

I'm not convinced that women in rock and metal do, in fact, statistically tend to be vocalists rather than play instruments; maybe you just think that because you notice them more? Even if that were the case, it's a pretty big jump to claim that it must be due to physical or mental differences between the genders. Of course you don't come right out and say that you think they can't hack it; you say that they "just aren't interested" in those instruments, offer a counterpoint of actual data that doesn't support what you're saying, and then brush it aside with some handwaving about "an Ed Sheeran effect". Now, the "Ed Sheeran effect" is actually about women finding red-haired men more attractive because of Ed Sheeran's popularity, but you're extending it to say it's also the reason why women are buying more guitars lately. The subtext there is that it's all down to sex appeal and marketing, not some organic uptick in female interest in playing music. In other words, women aren't really interested in music, per se, but they might manage to learn how to bang out some tunes thanks to the influence of a popular male cultural figure.

Then we get to the "small hands" bit. This is a howler. If this was true, you'd think women (and men!) with small hands wouldn't take up the bass guitar, or the cello, or the double bass... and yet they do! (On this note, I would invite you to think back about ten or fifteen years to the stereotype that "chicks always play the bass".) You'd think people with larger hands wouldn't play violin, or mandolin, or anything else comparatively tiny and finicky... and yet they do. Guitar's not that big of an instrument. Playing metal is not some massive, Herculean undertaking. And you can't use the fact that women tend to have smaller hands than men, statistically, on average, as evidence for some sharp distinction between the genders. Hand size is a spectrum. There's no bright-line discontinuity. This is a category error on your part.

You lecturing ChainsawAkimbo about "real science" being "based on observation" is extra funny when you haven't offered one bit of real-world data to support what you're saying, aside from a few anecdotes about a handful of musicians within your own sphere of knowledge. Deliberately misunderstanding his point about "cavemen" doesn't do you any favors. And the repeated worries about staying "on topic" are pretty funny too, considering that you said you wanted to "celebrate women in metal" but have yet to mention anything actually positive about any particular female musician, or women's contributions to music in general. Since we're relying on personal anecdotes here, I'd like to share that I personally know a bunch of ripping female musicians - some of whom love and play metal - and I can assure you that in my 27 years of playing music I've seen no evidence of any difference in talent or ability on any instrument that I could attribute to gender. There is no denying that women are underrepresented in rock and metal, but you're way out over your skis.

Now I'm gonna go listen to Anachronism, and maybe some Nachtlieder.

 

I agree with you on so many points but when we talk about famous household names in metal  most are men. There's a fair few women though nightwish singer floor Jansen who are big, evenesence singer, within temptation singer Sharon ?? can't remember the rest,  Becca from code orange, Gina from baroness both in biggish bands on guitar. Myrkur mastermind who ruffled a few feathers with her take on black metal who does lots of instruments. Your right though alabaster that theres alot more women playing metal when you look more carefully but there just not all household names but for some reason the numbers of women in metal bands seems to be lower than say pop music.  Just my take. Prove me wrong! ?

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20 hours ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

I agree with you on so many points but when we talk about famous household names in metal  most are men. There's a fair few women though nightwish singer floor Jansen who are big, evenesence singer, within temptation singer Sharon ?? can't remember the rest,  Becca from code orange, Gina from baroness both in biggish bands on guitar. Myrkur mastermind who ruffled a few feathers with her take on black metal who does lots of instruments. Your right though alabaster that theres alot more women playing metal when you look more carefully but there just not all household names but for some reason the numbers of women in metal bands seems to be lower than say pop music.  Just my take. Prove me wrong! ?

This response is puzzling to me. There are obviously way more men than women in metal. I'm not sure how you got the impression that I was saying otherwise.

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3 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

This response is puzzling to me. There are obviously way more men than women in metal. I'm not sure how you got the impression that I was saying otherwise.

Sorry I skim read your long but we'll written response and I got the wrong impression. I thought you were saying  that there was alot more females working in metal bands and in the industry as a whole than most people realise. ? Probably last night's ? did not help.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

A few weeks ago I received an email link from The Sixsters to a digital download of their debut album.  It went into my spam folder, and so I did not find it until the other day.  I clicked on the link, but nothing happened.  I am not bothered though.  They made an album, and my money helped them.

 

Edit: it occurs to me that maybe The Sixsters should not be classed as a metal band, but they are definitely a rock band, and any one of them might be playing heavy metal music at some point in the future.

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On 4/21/2020 at 12:54 PM, GothExplorer said:

A few weeks ago I received an email link from The Sixsters to a digital download of their debut album.  It went into my spam folder, and so I did not find it until the other day.  I clicked on the link, but nothing happened.  I am not bothered though.  They made an album, and my money helped them.

 

Edit: it occurs to me that maybe The Sixsters should not be classed as a metal band, but they are definitely a rock band, and any one of them might be playing heavy metal music at some point in the future.

Can you elaborate on how the above relates to women in metal. 

I assume sixsters have women in the band.

Also what's the issue with the link. Did you pay for the album and it did not work. 

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On 4/22/2020 at 1:01 PM, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Can you elaborate on how the above relates to women in metal. 

I assume sixsters have women in the band.

Also what's the issue with the link. Did you pay for the album and it did not work. 

Instead of assuming anything about The Sixsters, maybe you could just check them out.  It is what the internet is for.  I would not class them as metal, but they are definitely good role models for young musicians.

I donated some money to them on GoFundMe, and was supposed to be rewarded with a copy of their debut album, but the link did not work.  I am not bothered.

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2 hours ago, GothExplorer said:

Instead of assuming anything about The Sixsters, maybe you could just check them out.  It is what the internet is for.  I would not class them as metal, but they are definitely good role models for young musicians.

I donated some money to them on GoFundMe, and was supposed to be rewarded with a copy of their debut album, but the link did not work.  I am not bothered.

Hang on.  Nobody told you to go and "check out" Primordial when you queried the post in the Intro thread.  I am not sure why you are taking such an aggressive stance on this post?  I see no reason for you to respond to a reasonable question with such hostility.

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5 hours ago, MacabreEternal said:

Hang on.  Nobody told you to go and "check out" Primordial when you queried the post in the Intro thread.  I am not sure why you are taking such an aggressive stance on this post?  I see no reason for you to respond to a reasonable question with such hostility.

I actually had that thread in my mind when I posted above.  Yes, I could have checked out Primordial, but did not.  When you - I think it was you - noted that there is indeed a band called Primordial, I accepted the rebuke with a good grace.

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On 4/24/2020 at 4:38 PM, MacabreEternal said:

Hang on.  Nobody told you to go and "check out" Primordial when you queried the post in the Intro thread.  I am not sure why you are taking such an aggressive stance on this post?  I see no reason for you to respond to a reasonable question with such hostility.

Thanks for spotting this. It was an overly aggressive response.  After all you can't expect everyone to Google every band you mention without giving some good reasons to do so and none were given when said band was mentioned.

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