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Inquisition and the allegations made by MetalSucks


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For anyone not already aware Inquisition recently got dropped from their label (Seasons of Mist), dropped from both the Satyricon tour and Maryland Deathfest after MetalSucks published an article evidencing lead singer Dagon had been convicted of posssessing child pornography.

Vince from the MetalSucks website discussed this with Cvlt Nation recently here and the rationale for the article written here.

I don’t entirely agree with Vince on some of his points in the interview.  Historically the site does this every now and again but this is one of their better researched pieces.  True or not Inquisition occupy a large slot in my BM collection and I don’t attest to the view that their music is now somehow terrible and should not be listened to or bought.  The world is full of assholes and some of them stink more than others.

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I'm in agreement. I don't see myself getting rid of my Inquisition albums or discontinuing listening to them, the music doesn't have anything to do with the member's actions, abhorrent as they are. That said though, the band can't really get upset if others don't share my view. Many will take it upon themselves to drop them for what they've done, and they have nobody to blame but themselves for that.

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It's an interesting psychological quirk, this idea that whenever some person does something really nasty, this somehow reflects on everything else that they have ever done, or will ever do again. The taint somehow becomes transcendental. Case in point, Gary Glitter, that I not very long ago got chided for mentioning among "important glam rock artists" ... because he too got arrested for possessing abuse documents of a paedophile nature.

Nowadays, you rarely hear the word "child pornography" in Norway. I've been one of many people that back in the late 80s started a campaign against that very concept, under the rationale that pornography is something that depicts legal activities between consenting adults, and that there can be no such thing as "child pornography", there can only be documentation of abuse, or evidence of a crime, to be exact. A crime I, like most sane parents, think is even more horrific than murder.

Which is why I have no sympathy whatsoever for those who explain themselves with being "just curious" (as is often the case). My tolerance level may be high and all, but there are some hard limits, and this one is non negotiable. 

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Which is why I have no sympathy whatsoever for those who explain themselves with being "just curious" (as is often the case). My tolerance level may be high and all, but there are some hard limits, and this one is non negotiable. 


100% agree. In this area, there is no grey. Just curious = sick in the head.
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4 hours ago, MaxFaust said:

 

Nowadays, you rarely hear the word "child pornography" in Norway. I've been one of many people that back in the late 80s started a campaign against that very concept, under the rationale that pornography is something that depicts legal activities between consenting adults, and that there can be no such thing as "child pornography", there can only be documentation of abuse, or evidence of a crime, to be exact. A crime I, like most sane parents, think is even more horrific than murder.

That's a great and very clear way to put it, thank you.

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  • 1 month later...

They put out some really fucking good music, and I still think of their music as such. However, given just how horrible child pornography is and the fact that it's a sensitive subject for me, being a survivor of sexual abuse as a child, their music will now always have a negative stigma to it. I might play it, but I'll never be able to enjoy it the way I used to. That's just me though.

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6 hours ago, salmonellapancake said:

They put out some really fucking good music, and I still think of their music as such. However, given just how horrible child pornography is and the fact that it's a sensitive subject for me, being a survivor of sexual abuse as a child, their music will now always have a negative stigma to it. I might play it, but I'll never be able to enjoy it the way I used to. That's just me though.

Sorry to hear that Salmo. 

While I usually don’t have any issue with keeping band members’ extra-curricular activities separate from my enjoyment of the music, as a parent and a human being I think I draw the line at harming children. 

I won’t be listening to Inquisition.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Wait, this happened in 2009? Dagon would probably argue that these kids have grown up by now. Terrible joke indeed. Metal is pretty tolerant about breaking social taboos, but that is a pretty disturbing one with no path to reconciliation. I don't think people should burn their CDs or anything if they like the music, but with a name like Inquisition I'd be ok with the guy getting burned at the stake. Isn't Maryland deathfest all ages? Good thing they got dropped.

Is Dagon's real name Todd Nickerson? It is now.

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 years later...

Varg Vikernes killed Euronymous (and had a completely bullshit story as to why he did it). I still listen to Burzum.

It's entirely possible for bad people to make good music, or for good musicians to do bad things. Eric Clapton got on stage and made a speech about how "I used to be into dope, now I'm into racism. It's much heavier, man" (which was a catalyst for the formation of Rock Against Racism) & everyone still thinks that he's great. Bowie said that "Britain could benefit from a fascist leader" and gave a Nazi salute at Victoria station when he was all fucked up on coke... Bowie is untouchable in terms of his renown in the rock world.

So the Dagon is a degenerate, that doesn't mean that the music of Inquisition isn't worth listening to. If people want to show how "virtuous" they are by getting rid of their Inquisition albums, that's their problem. If you know that Dagon is a degenerate and still like Inquisition's music, who is going to fault you for that?

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  • 3 months later...

Don't really know what the rest of this thread is about but I do tend to agree. I was never their biggest fan but I still listen to Iced Earth despite what Jon did. I don't support what he did but I did upset a few members of another forum when I suggested that I wasn't as offended by what he did as they were. Their opinion was that the whole world should hate Jon and the music he released prior to doing it.

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For us in Australia the whole 6 January thing is irrelevant anyhow. 

 

Though if someone stormed Parliament House in Canberra, I'd probably want to shake their hand regardless of their beliefs!

 

Anyhow early Iced Earth (up to and including Something Wicked This Way Comes) is still some of my favourite music of all time.

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I don't think it's entirely irrelevant, but I get your point. It doesn't effect us the same way it might an American and it doesn't have to.

I remember people writing into newspapers around the time Clinton got caught "not having sexual relations with that woman" suggesting that if our PM got caught with a bit on the side Aussies would be cheering him on. I don't think that's quite true, but it does show the difference between how we view our leaders.

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Yeah we all them all in this country. Bob Hawke was a swearing, womanising, drunk. Sir Joe could hardly lie straight in bed some days. Gladys Veryjigglybum gets ousted for dodgy shit then gets offered a Federal seat. Matthew Guy (Vic Opposition) has a good chance getting back in because of the failure of the current government and he was ousted only about 4 years ago for having dinner with a "mafia" boss and all sorts of other corruption.

We accept al kinds of failures as our leaders in this country. Actually maybe that should read, we are forced to accept all kinds of failures as our leaders. We don't have time to be concerned about an American singer making a dick of himself storming a government building, in this country we vote the dicks in there to begin with!

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I would imagine it's hard to care about something that happens halfway around the world, and maybe there's some schadenfreude at our dysfunction. The 1/6 Capitol riot was a dark fucking day as far as I'm concerned, I'll never forget it, and I care about the surrounding issues a lot, but I don't find myself any less inclined to listen to Demons & Wizards over that, now that you mention it. Maybe I'm just good at compartmentalizing. There's a bunch of stuff I think is bad juju and I personally won't listen to it. Jon Schaffer is a dunce but his music doesn't fall into that category. I guess I wouldn't respect someone any less for disowning it, but I don't feel the need. Iced Earth kinda sucks on their own merits for me, I don't think they've ever had a vocalist I liked.

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Caring and not being concerned are two wildly different things though. This is the argument I had with the Americans that tried to tell me I should care about more about the Capitol riots. I can still be concerned that shit like that happens overseas, I can disagree with it and I can condemn it. But I don't have to care about it to the same degree, just like an overseas person don't have to care about our corrupt politicians doing corrupt things to people in this country.

I'm sure some people find humour in what happened, some who do might even be American, but each to their own. Our media tried to tell us that Australia was "embarrassed" on a world stage because of the NoVax Joker thing a few weeks back. They told us that the world view us are being in the wrong and we should be saddened by it. The same media continually tell us our Prime Minister is embarrassing us in front of the world, and then people parrot those words in general conversation going on about how embarrassed they are that someone they don't know on the other side of the world thinks our PM is a dickhead.

Perspective is a wonderful thing, but just because someone else doesn't have exactly the same views as me doesn't make them wrong.

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29 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Caring and not being concerned are two wildly different things though. This is the argument I had with the Americans that tried to tell me I should care about more about the Capitol riots. I can still be concerned that shit like that happens overseas, I can disagree with it and I can condemn it. But I don't have to care about it to the same degree, just like an overseas person don't have to care about our corrupt politicians doing corrupt things to people in this country.

My comment was more directed at Dead. Of course it's different reading about something happening somewhere else than it is when it's happening at home. Weird that anyone would hold that against you, but at the same time, tensions here are pretty high and tensions around that topic are even higher, so it's not like everyone is being super logical and dispassionate about it. I have a hard time putting my own feelings about it aside, but at the same time I have a hard time seeing how any of that connects to some power metal albums from years ago. 

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And I wasn't having a go at your post either, I was simply making a comparison that we all view things differently and as such will judge things differently.

As to how it relates, I don't know. I'll admit, I'm guilty, I barely even skimmed the rest of the post before responding to Dead. Perhaps it's just another case of diversity at work?

 

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On 4/24/2018 at 8:32 PM, MacabreEternal said:

True or not Inquisition occupy a large slot in my BM collection and I don’t attest to the view that their music is now somehow terrible and should not be listened to or bought.  The world is full of assholes and some of them stink more than others.

I'll resurrect the original topic of this thread here and just say that to me it's not a question if Inquisition's music suddenly got worse due to the allegations (well I think he copped a plea bargain so he's 100% not innocent), but that I don't want to support him by giving him money or attention through record sales, streams or such. It's purely "vote with your wallet" kind of thing. The guy doesn't deserve anything but a kick in the head.

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Yeah Dagon is a legit pedophile AND a freakin' Nazi. Like, basically about as unimpressive as a human being can get. I certainly don't demand that every artist I listen to must be an upstanding person and I own plenty of music made by unsavory people, but....... I do have some moral standards and there are lines I refuse to cross. Being both a perverted deviant and a Hitler simp puts them in the "fuck this trash" category for me.

inquisition-nazi-flag.jpg.38b639d5dbdc0db4141f63676e4be956.jpg

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6 hours ago, Sheol said:

I'll resurrect the original topic of this thread here and just say that to me it's not a question if Inquisition's music suddenly got worse due to the allegations (well I think he copped a plea bargain so he's 100% not innocent), but that I don't want to support him by giving him money or attention through record sales, streams or such. It's purely "vote with your wallet" kind of thing. The guy doesn't deserve anything but a kick in the head.

I don't necessarily disagree on 'a kick in the head' or that buying his music is a questionable choice given the knowledge of who he is / what he has done.  My point is that I am not taking my vinyl copies out into the yard and burning them just because one of the people who performed on them turned out to be an abhorrent cunt and I only found out they were years after they were bought.  

Whatever he has done the music is still the same in quality.  More recent output might be no better or worse quality or it might be fucking amazing, I might even stumble across it on the internet without typing "paedo-nazi bm" into a search engine, still not going to buy it now.

P.s. a picture of any band with a swastika, doesn't make them Nazi in my book.  They are probably dumb as fuck yeah (Taake anyone?) and just trying to be controversial without having any idea of the impact of the ideology in the grown up world. 

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22 minutes ago, MacabreEternal said:

P.s. a picture of any band with a swastika, doesn't make them Nazi in my book.  They are probably dumb as fuck yeah (Taake anyone?) and just trying to be controversial without having any idea of the impact of the ideology in the grown up world. 

Yeah, that's early 90's edgelord provoke a reaction shit as far as I see it. Lots of bands did that sort of thing back then (and still do). People grow up and change. Get a better understanding of the world and other people. I'm much more likely to reject those that continue to spew that bullshit when they're older vs those that are in their teens/early 20's.

Dagon doesn't seem to be a good dude. I say seem to be because I don't know him and don't actively seek to engage and learn those sorts of things about musicians in general. If the opportunity were to present, I'd be interested in an unfiltered honest perspective from the guy on what he did and the changes if any he's made since then. No one here is likely to ever have that sort of perspective much less me, so I have a tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't like what he did/pled too and certainly don't endorse it, but so much of metal journalism is sketchy at best and many accusations are founded on loose associations, reading between the lines, and hearsay. Not saying that's the case here with Dagon, but just that I've because I've become much more skeptical over the past few years of anything I read on the interweb.

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23 minutes ago, navybsn said:

Yeah, that's early 90's edgelord provoke a reaction shit as far as I see it. Lots of bands did that sort of thing back then (and still do). People grow up and change. Get a better understanding of the world and other people. I'm much more likely to reject those that continue to spew that bullshit when they're older vs those that are in their teens/early 20's.

Yeah and in Dagon's case, he grew up changed for the worse, and downloaded an exorbitant amount of child porn. That's not much of a redemption arc. Perhaps he's changed for the better since then, and If you and wanna give him the benefit of the doubt, that's fine I guess, but it's perfectly within reason for others to not do so.

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8 hours ago, Sheol said:

I'll resurrect the original topic of this thread here and just say that to me it's not a question if Inquisition's music suddenly got worse due to the allegations (well I think he copped a plea bargain so he's 100% not innocent), but that I don't want to support him by giving him money or attention through record sales, streams or such. It's purely "vote with your wallet" kind of thing. The guy doesn't deserve anything but a kick in the head.

That's a good point-not giving notoriety or $ to someone that can benefit who's a legit dirt bag. It's one thing to say, I'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of enjoying Picasso's art because he was reportedly a misogynist who abused women repeatedly or demand we tear down The Jefferson Memorial  because the man was had a relationship with a woman he kept as a slave-they're dead! 

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