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Ikard

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I finally got around to watching Hellraiser last night. Overall I thought it was okay but it did lack some details. Even though I have seen the original and read the book I think they could have explained the role of the Cenobites in a better detail. I kind of felt there was parts of the film that were not explained because they were explained in the original, which is fine but for me it made this less of a stand alone remake and more of an additional movie. There was some cringeworthy moments in it caused by average acting and directing but that's what horror movies are about. Overall I don't think it was as bad as some people are saying.

Although I do realise that many of the people I've spoken to or heard talk about it are complaining mostly about the film's 'wokeness'. For me I didn't really care that Pinhead was female and didn't focus on that aspect of the film. I've also heard people suggest that the new version having a gay couple made it woke, but I think those people are focusing on the wrong thing, especially given that Clive himself is gay and this is not the first time he written gay characters.

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While I can understand how the knee-jerk reaction to a woman playing pinhead initially made people think "woke remake", this has been addressed/debunked multiple times by people who know the book. Pinhead is basically androgynous, with no real indication of sex or gender. Casting a woman in the role makes just as much sense as casting a man, and anyone ignoring that fact at this point is either unaware, or is just wants an excuse to bitch.

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I haven't read any debunking or addressing of the character, I've barely even read anything promotional, but that's nothing unusual I rarely read that sort of thing. Most of the guys I've heard bitching about it are serial whingers, they claim to know the original story but it's clear they've either forgotten it, or chosen to remember in the light they want to for their own reasons.

My problem is I need these 'woke' things explained to me because I never know what the hell is woke about something. I actually had to ask my wife as the credits started rolling what it was that people thought was woke about the movie.

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I have always understood Pinhead is androgynous and that also Clive Barker is gay (reading some of his work that featured homosexuality when I was 14-15 was shocking because at the time homosexuality wasn't just taboo in Tasmania, it was illegal!).

 

However in this day and age where a 19th century British Queen and aristocracy is cast as black and Indian (Bridgerton or Dr Who) and where according to most shows, LGTIQ+ makes up at least a quarter of the population and every heterosexual couple is mixed race, it's  easy to go down allegations of wokedom.

 

Personally I don't care and I will watch it but you have to admit the entertainment industry really is hammering the virtue signalling these days.

18 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

I haven't read any debunking or addressing of the character, I've barely even read anything promotional, but that's nothing unusual I rarely read that sort of thing. Most of the guys I've heard bitching about it are serial whingers, they claim to know the original story but it's clear they've either forgotten it, or chosen to remember in the light they want to for their own reasons.

My problem is I need these 'woke' things explained to me because I never know what the hell is woke about something. I actually had to ask my wife as the credits started rolling what it was that people thought was woke about the movie.

 

Wokeness these days seems defined as to casting of traditional white male heterosexual characters with female, LBTIQ+ and non-white actors.

Obviously Pinhead is an androgynous demon so it really is a moot point that Doug Bradley acted it in the past and its now an actual transwoman.

 

But it does happen a lot especially in British TV shows where as I mentioned 19th century aristocracy is now portrayed as black and Indian whilst traditional white male Dr Who has now been a woman and a black man.  The British do approach it in a real ham-fisted approach though.

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13 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

You'd have to explain virtue signalling to me too, but then I'm probably not interested enough to retain it's meaning because I just don't give enough shits about such things.

 

A definition from google:

 

"The action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.".  

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Basically, it's not just supporting a cause, it's making sure everyone knows you support a cause so they pat you on the ass about how great it is that you support said cause.

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

But it does happen a lot especially in British TV shows where as I mentioned 19th century aristocracy is now portrayed as black and Indian whilst traditional white male Dr Who has now been a woman and a black man.  The British do approach it in a real ham-fisted approach though.

Not just the British, but Hollywood as well....especially streaming services. It's become so common at Netflix that it's essentially a meme now

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18 minutes ago, SurgicalBrute said:

Not just the British, but Hollywood as well....especially streaming services. It's become so common at Netflix that it's essentially a meme now

Netflix is terrible for it.

But you are right it's everywhere.

My favourite example was the uproar about movie Dunkirk which was sledged for not having any lead female or non-white roles.  People forget it was a movie about a historical event 338,000 white men waiting on a beach in 1940!

 

 

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My biggest issue is when it's shoehorned into something that is supposedly historical as well as when the diversity is hamfisted in simply to show tokens of diversity eg including an overtly LGBTIQ+ character in a show/movie where no other character reveals their sexuality.

Eg it often comes across like this:

Character 1: "The monsters are everywhere.  How do we get out of here?"

Character 2: "Maybe through the air vent but someone will have to stay behind to keep the fan stalled."

Overtly Gay Character: "Oh but I am gay and loved a gay man who was eaten by the monsters.  So hard being gay in a monster filled world." 

Character 1: "I think I can jury rig something so we all get out.

Non binary character (and usually the most sullen depressing person in the group eg that shit Guards show or Umbrella Academy): "Yeah there's monsters and there's vents but I am non-binary and you have to refer to me as "They"."

Character 2: "Maybe we can use that crowbar."

Character 1: "Good thinking, we may get out of this alive just yet."

 

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^Basically what Dead said...I don't so much get offended by it, there's no point in that, but I do usually find it to be lazy and eye-rollingly hamfisted. It can be done well, like in the recent GoT: House of the Dragon, which managed to win people over because the overall story was good, but 9/10 it means the show is going to be awful because the clowns who write this stuff confuse race/gender/sexuality with personality. They never seem to think beyond what they are long enough to bother establishing who they are as characters.  

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I don't need super deep characterization...some of my favorite movies are objectively stupid films that are so bad, they become funny. What I want is for a movie to be internally consistent to it's own internal logic. if everyone is a stereotype...fine, than that's the kind of movie we're watching. i love those types of movies. If you're trying to tell an actual, engaging story though, like in a long-format TV series...especially if it's based on a pre-existing IP that I'm familiar with...and you decide to race/gender/sexuality swap a characters around. I'm going to want a little thought put into it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

From what I remember the Lead cenobite in the book (didn't even have a name), was androgonous and spoke in a high pitched, eerie voice. So if you want to get technical, Doug Bradley ruined Hellraiser!!!!

The Cenobites are sadist demons from hell, you're lucky they have any identifying human traits all, much less sex. And I had no clue the lead actress was a transwoman. Had 0 impact on her performance and I'm sure that's not why she was cast.

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  • 5 months later...

My favorite horror movies 

a nightmare on elm street (1984)

Friday the 13th part 3 (1982)

Childs play (1988)

The shining (1980)

Texas chainsaw massacre (1973)

Evil dead II (1987)

Killer klowns from outer space (1988) (it's a stretch but its a great horror comedy influenced by 50s sci-fi horror)

Poltergeist (1982)

It miniseries (1990)

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
12 hours ago, Skittler said:

Went to the theatre a couple weeks ago and watched Evil Dead Rise. I didn't pay much attention because I was on a date but I really can't remember much of it at all. I'm a fan of the old fims so I will probably try to watch it again but I dont have high hopes.

I am curious to hear what you think about it.  I tried convincing wife to come along to see it but she wasn't too keen.

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7 hours ago, Dead1 said:

I am curious to hear what you think about it.  I tried convincing wife to come along to see it but she wasn't too keen.

I'll let you know if I do watch it again.

 

Hellraiser (2022) 7/10 - It was better than expected but I didn't enjoy the pacing at the start. They could have selected a better lead actress but the female Pinhead did ok filling in for Doug Bradley and the film is better than the last few. All around decent effort to be a Hulu original but I wouldn't go out of my way to see it again. 

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  • 8 months later...
On 10/30/2022 at 8:39 PM, AlSymerz said:

I finally got around to watching Hellraiser last night. Overall I thought it was okay but it did lack some details. Even though I have seen the original and read the book I think they could have explained the role of the Cenobites in a better detail. I kind of felt there was parts of the film that were not explained because they were explained in the original, which is fine but for me it made this less of a stand alone remake and more of an additional movie. There was some cringeworthy moments in it caused by average acting and directing but that's what horror movies are about. Overall I don't think it was as bad as some people are saying.

Although I do realise that many of the people I've spoken to or heard talk about it are complaining mostly about the film's 'wokeness'. For me I didn't really care that Pinhead was female and didn't focus on that aspect of the film. I've also heard people suggest that the new version having a gay couple made it woke, but I think those people are focusing on the wrong thing, especially given that Clive himself is gay and this is not the first time he written gay characters.

Can't beat hellraiser 2

Best of last few years

Hereditary 

Martyrs 

Dark and the wicked

Terrified (not terrifier)

 

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