What are the "Big 4" of other genres of metal?

[ButterLettuss]

Obviously we all know the Big 4 of thrash.  Just curious what people think of as the equivalent bands of other styles of metal.  As an example, here are my metalcore "Big 4" (in no particular order):

 

1. Killswitch Engage

2. Unearth

3. August Burns Red

4. All That Remains

 

Love to hear what everybody thinks!

[Steve Cowan]

Big 4 of Death Metal?

1. Death

2. Morbid Angel

3. Obituary

4. Carcass

I guess these lists are going to be heavily subjective.

[ButterLettuss]

49 minutes ago, Steve Cowan said:

Big 4 of Death Metal?

1. Death

2. Morbid Angel

3. Obituary

4. Carcass

I guess these lists are going to be heavily subjective.

You could get some people arguing cannibal corpse could be in there, but it's hard to argue with Death being at the top

The subjectivity is the best part!

[Balor]

Black Metal:

-Mayhem

-Burzum

-Darkthrone

-Emperor

[Requiem]

12 hours ago, Balor said:

Black Metal:

-Mayhem

-Burzum

-Darkthrone

-Emperor

You nailed it. 

 

[Steve Cowan]

19 hours ago, ButterLettuss said:

You could get some people arguing cannibal corpse could be in there, but it's hard to argue with Death being at the top

The subjectivity is the best part!

Indeed. I guess it depends on by what criteria we're judging it. If it's the same as the Big 4 of Thrash (i.e. record sales), then it'll be a pretty boring list. I'm looking forward to seeing what people genuinely think to these lists though.

[ButterLettuss]

32 minutes ago, Steve Cowan said:

Indeed. I guess it depends on by what criteria we're judging it. If it's the same as the Big 4 of Thrash (i.e. record sales), then it'll be a pretty boring list. I'm looking forward to seeing what people genuinely think to these lists though.

I hope people don't think of it as record sales.  I'm looking for what someone would consider the originators or major influences for their genre of choice.

[Steve Cowan]

2 hours ago, ButterLettuss said:

I hope people don't think of it as record sales.  I'm looking for what someone would consider the originators or major influences for their genre of choice.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[RelentlessOblivion]

If we're going for originators then Death and Black metal lists are kind of wrong. Possessed are missing from death metal and ought to sit in place of Carcass (ps grindcore/goregrind until Heartwork just sayin'. I am a genre nazi). Also Venom, Mercyful Fate, Bathory, and Celtic Frost would be the forerunners of black metal.

 

Now then MY area of expertise. The big 4 of doom metal would be: Black Sabbath, Saint Vitus, Pentagram, and Trouble. At least if we want originators.

[Iceni]

Tech-death:

Death

Nile

Necrophagist

Suffocation

Not that I like any of them that much. If I could make a big 4 list synthesizing sustained quality, longevity and success it'd probably be:

Gigan

Gorguts

Gorod

Wormed

 

[Balor]

2 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

If we're going for originators then Death and Black metal lists are kind of wrong. Possessed are missing from death metal and ought to sit in place of Carcass (ps grindcore/goregrind until Heartwork just sayin'. I am a genre nazi). Also Venom, Mercyful Fate, Bathory, and Celtic Frost would be the forerunners of black metal.

 

Now then MY area of expertise. The big 4 of doom metal would be: Black Sabbath, Saint Vitus, Pentagram, and Trouble. At least if we want originators.

I thought the same about Carcass too.

[RelentlessOblivion]

10 hours ago, Iceni said:

Tech-death:

Death

Nile

Necrophagist

Suffocation

Not that I like any of them that much. If I could make a big 4 list synthesizing sustained quality, longevity and success it'd probably be:

Gigan

Gorguts

Gorod

Wormed

 

Death, Suffocation, Gorguts, probably Atheist for the originators I think. Honestly for sustained quality as well for the first three bands anyway. Still not sure why Individual Thought Patterns through to The Sound Of Perseverance don't do it for you though.

 

Anyway I'm going to change my criteria to factor in a band's importance, quality over their entire discography, and longevity when making a list.

 

So then the big 4 of doom would be: Black Sabbath, Trouble, My Dying Bride, and Saint Vitus.

[Iceni]

18 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Death, Suffocation, Gorguts, probably Atheist for the originators I think. Honestly for sustained quality as well for the first three bands anyway. Still not sure why Individual Thought Patterns through to The Sound Of Perseverance don't do it for you though.

I liked IDP and TSOP is OK. Haven't liked much of anything else, so on balance I wouldn't say I like Death. As for originators, I coulda put either Atheist or Pestilence on there but I don't know that either are particularly prolific, especially not Atheist. I also wanted to acknowledge the ubiquity of the wank school of tech-death for which I think Mr. Sucmiez is indirectly responsible (much as I hate it), hence Negrophagist.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Well I know you're not the biggest fan of old-school DM so you were never going to like early Death to be fair. Oh well taste is a funny thing. Death are the epitome of quality and longevity so far as I'm concerned. Such a shame Chuck passed so young.

[Steve Cowan]

On 10/31/2017 at 7:13 PM, Balor said:

I thought the same about Carcass too.

In retrospect, given the criteria for the list, I'd probably agree on removing Carcass. However, I'd probably stick Entombed in, just for the sake of being different. I never understood the whole Possessed being the progenitors of death metal thing. I don't see them as any more death metal than Slayer.

[Balor]

1 hour ago, Steve Cowan said:

In retrospect, given the criteria for the list, I'd probably agree on removing Carcass. However, I'd probably stick Entombed in, just for the sake of being different. I never understood the whole Possessed being the progenitors of death metal thing. I don't see them as any more death metal than Slayer.

They would definitely be on any top four list of goregrind/deathgrind though.

[FatherAlabaster]

1 hour ago, Steve Cowan said:

In retrospect, given the criteria for the list, I'd probably agree on removing Carcass. However, I'd probably stick Entombed in, just for the sake of being different. I never understood the whole Possessed being the progenitors of death metal thing. I don't see them as any more death metal than Slayer.

Possessed gets the credit for releasing the first "death metal" full-length (Seven Churches) on a label (Combat) in 1985, and they actually released a demo called "Death Metal" in 1984, around the same time as Necrophagia released the "Death Is Fun" demo and Mantas put out the "Death By Metal" demo and then changed their name to Death. Death was kind of in the air, I suppose. Those are the earliest DM demo releases that I've heard. There were other proto-DM bands active around the same time, like Executioner (pre-Obituary), R.A.V.A.G.E. (pre-Atheist), and Morbid Angel, who started putting out demos in 1985.

A lot of this stuff sounds transitional today; there are a lot of similarities to thrash and early black metal, and early DM groups were influenced by/shared members and stages with some bands involved in those scenes. If you only listen for the similarities, it can all kind of blend together. If I had to give a quick, subjective take on what differentiated early examples of various genres of extreme metal, I'd say that thrash stood apart by virtue of its sheer speed; black metal by its evil, creepy atmosphere; and DM by its focus on impact, with comparatively "heavy" riffing and exclusively harsh vocals.

That's a quick spitball take, not intended to be picked apart by nerds with tweezers. Possessed weren't writing death metal in a vacuum, but they were in the game really early, were the first DM band to move beyond the demo stages, and had a big influence on other bands at the time.

[Requiem]

Why are people fixated on the originators of a genre to determine Big 4 status? Did Metallica et al invent thrash? Just name the four biggest/best/important bands in your opinion. I refuse to read another post in this thread unless this is done.

[RelentlessOblivion]

To be fair the entire big 4 moniker was purely based on commercial success and therefore we ought to be naming bands solely on those grounds.

 

That's why the originators of a sound are even being discussed.

[Requiem]

1 hour ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

To be fair the entire big 4 moniker was purely based on commercial success and therefore we ought to be naming bands solely on those grounds.

 

That's why the originators of a sound are even being discussed.

 

The Big 4 of thrash was a concept that I remember reading in early 90s magazines lauding the bands who, yes, sold a lot, but also had a quality and sense of scene that distinguished them. 

If you want to name genre originators I’m sure we could start a thread for that.

[RelentlessOblivion]

We do, the big four moniker is primarily a commercial tagline.

[FatherAlabaster]

7 hours ago, Requiem said:

Why are people fixated on the originators of a genre to determine Big 4 status? Did Metallica et al invent thrash? Just name the four biggest/best/important bands in your opinion. I refuse to read another post in this thread unless this is done.

I dunno, because the thread starter said that's the kind of discussion he was looking for?

[Iceni]

17 hours ago, Requiem said:

Why are people fixated on the originators of a genre to determine Big 4 status? Did Metallica et al invent thrash? Just name the four biggest/best/important bands in your opinion. I refuse to read another post in this thread unless this is done.

I mean I did that for tech-death. Butter said it could be originators or just the most influential.

[ButterLettuss]

21 hours ago, Requiem said:

Why are people fixated on the originators of a genre to determine Big 4 status? Did Metallica et al invent thrash? Just name the four biggest/best/important bands in your opinion. I refuse to read another post in this thread unless this is done.

 

13 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

I dunno, because the thread starter said that's the kind of discussion he was looking for?

Originally i used the term big 4 to give people a general idea of what i was asking for. I really just wanted to know the most influential bands in a genre youre familiar with.  You could argue while metallica didnt invent thrash, they were one of the pioneers and definitely helped to push the genre forward, while also selling a shit ton of albums. Its meant to be a discussion, so you tell me! What are the 4 most influential bands in the genre you like the most?

[xUpTheIronsx]

Prog metal/originators(?)

1. Queensryche

2. Fates Warning

3. Watchtower

4. Sanctuary