Gender representations in heavy metal music?

[soph1233456]

I am a student studying a music course conducting a piece of work relating to gender representations in heavy metal. I am particularly wanting responses and views regarding the question above. Also i would hugely appreciate it if people could comment on questions as such: -What gender do you find more dominant within the genre? -Do you think heavy metal is typically a masculine genre? -How do you think women are perceived within heavy metal? -Do you think there is a specific image involved in the genre? Any comments would be a great help to use in my research.(i will not use peoples identities in work) I would also appreciate it if front women of heavy metal bands or women heavy metal band members could tell me their perceptions on heavy metal and feeling towards my question. Thanks Sophie

[FatherAlabaster]

We do have a few discussions on that topic already: http://metalforum.com/deep-meaningful/1474-femininity-sexuality-metal.html http://metalforum.com/deep-meaningful/1978-male-chauvinism-metal.html There are some other threads where we talk about it, too, if you feel like digging around - I think one or two about "female-fronted metal bands", etc. "Gender representations in heavy metal music" isn't a question. I really think you need to clarify your questions. The vast majority of metal musicians are male; I'm not sure what you mean by "masculine genre". I'm also not sure what you mean by "how women are perceived within heavy metal" - female musicians? Fans? Women in general? Perceived by who - male metal fans? As far as a "specific image", do you mean a stereotypical dress code; are you talking about men, women, or both; and given that "metal" has developed in so many different directions in the past forty-five years, which branch of it are you asking about?

[RelentlessOblivion]

I'll second what FA has said. Your questions aren't clear making it rather difficult to respond. Perhaps if you rephrase them we can more accurately respond to your queries.

[Iceni]

For question 1, it would be well worth it to define and clarify the word 'dominant'. Question 4 is reasonable but it really differs by genre, as FA said. Fallujah dress like hipsters but they're still pretty well-liked. I certainly enjoy their material. Generally speaking people overlook atypical dress in favor of good music, so the idea of 'typical dress' isn't particularly salient. As for question 3: metal is music. Lyrics are integral but secondary. Talking about a given 'metal' attitude is strictly speaking remiss. However, I will say that in my experience metalheads are usually not overly fussed with political correctness, and they never have been. The only normative movement concerning metal that I'm aware of is 'Metalheads against Racism', and that still doesn't stop people listening to Burzum or Nokturnal Mortum because fundamentally metal is music, not ideology. Vastly, people listen to such bands because they like the sounds they make, as one might expect would be the general attitude toward a musical genre.

[GorboGorboze]

I am a student studying a music course conducting a piece of work relating to gender representations in heavy metal. I am particularly wanting responses and views regarding the question above. Also i would hugely appreciate it if people could comment on questions as such: -What gender do you find more dominant within the genre? -Do you think heavy metal is typically a masculine genre? -How do you think women are perceived within heavy metal? -Do you think there is a specific image involved in the genre? Any comments would be a great help to use in my research.(i will not use peoples identities in work) I would also appreciate it if front women of heavy metal bands or women heavy metal band members could tell me their perceptions on heavy metal and feeling towards my question. Thanks Sophie

Hey Sophie, welcome to the forum. One of the things that I love about this forum is that it is welcoming to woman, and another thing that I love about it is that it gets participation from non native speakers of English. It seems clear that you fit into both of these categories. There are some thoughtful and intelligent people on this forum, and you could get some help with you research here. I commend you on your skill with the English language, but advise you simplify your writing a bit maybe, as some of your usage is a bit ambiguous. Please consider my analysis of the question. "Gender representations in heavy metal music?" Firstly, thought there is a question mark, this is not a question, it is the title of an article you might want to write. It is a subject, not a question. I think you might be more interested in gender politics in the scene than how women (are you mostly interested in femininity, rather that masculinity?) are represented in the lyrics of metal songs, but that that is ambiguous. We have a fairly new term in America, current only within the last decade or so, which is gender representation. I've only heard it used in the singular to refer to how a person, regardless of biological sex, informs the world about how they see themselves in the spectrum from butch to femme, and does not necessarily have anything to do with sexual orientation. Is this the concept your referring to, or do you simple want to know how many women are in the metal scene? If you mean the concept, you need to explain it, 'cuz I'm just macho dude living out in the boondocks. Thank you for enduring this lecture, if you did. I will answer all the questions thoughtfully, but need to go just now.

[GorboGorboze]

Hello, Is anyone there?... Well, maybe I'm not going to answer the questions after all.

[Syuurin]

Should this person return, I'll point out that I'm a (mostly) cis woman and am always up for discussions about gender... To briefly answer, 1. I would think that there are more men than women involved in the genre; however, it's also quite possible that many women who like metal are simply less visible--I've found some women to be reluctant to attend concerts, for example, because they have a slightly skewed view of what it will be like (as well as very legitimate worries, such as having no one to go with). However, most of the concerts I've been to have had a fair number of women, and in my personal experience the skew toward male and male-identified people is definitely less than, say, what I see in my computer science major or at video game-related events. I cannot, however, speak for broader statistics; I can only provide anecdote. 2. I think this depends on the sub-genre. Personally, I associate power metal and viking metal, for example, with hyper-masculinity. Progressive metal and 'classic' heavy metal also feel a bit masculine, but not nearly as much the former two. However, I wouldn't particularly associate sub-genres like doom metal or black metal with masculinity, especially on a group-by-group basis. To provide a female perspective on how this might affect listening habits--given that I dislike masculinity as a concept (as it causes a number of problems which I won't get into here, unless someone wants me to), I prefer to listen to subgenres and bands that don't strike me as hyper-masculine, but I do still like progressive metal and many classic bands. There are also plenty of women who do like more masculine groups. 3. To be honest, I don't have a strong answer to this. I've never faced delegitimization as a metal fan, and in general get the impression that metal has less issues regarding this than some of my other interests, like video games or programming, where women often face more overt discrimination (they're assumed to have less knowledge about the subject, to like it only for male attention, etc). Perhaps it has something to do with the genres of metal I like being generally less accessible; i.e., men are less likely to assume my interest in them is illegitimate. But I've never felt that I had to "prove myself" as a fan of metal. This is, however, my individual experience. 4. I am not entirely sure what you mean by this question. I'm supposing it's about how women are portrayed in metal, in which case, I haven't taken the time to think about this very much so far. I would say that from what I have heard, women are sometimes sexualized in a negative manner perhaps in terms of being defiled or serving as a temptress (often, such references use religious imagery). Likely, the hyper-masculine or at least overtly masculine subgenres/groups have more problems in this regard. I've definitely come across lyrics with an "I'm just a man doing lonely man things and I don't have time for girly woman-y things" vibe, or lyrics with a "damsel in distress" vs. "masculine hero" dynamic. I would, however, have to find and analyze lyrics in a more in-depth manner to determine to what extent and in what ways the portrayal of women in metal is (or isn't) problematic.

[espnmarshall]

@syuurin and @soph1233456 I think the discrepancy between the number of males and females interested in or playing in the genre is a repeating cycle. The genre as a whole has an aggressive sound (obviously) which is often conflated with testosterone and masculinity. So, people view it that way. As a result, fewer women get involved to begin with, perpetuating the cycle. However, I feel that this filters out the types of girls who are afraid to do things that guys like to do, leaving only the baddest ladies to hang out! Also, as a music educator, I have noticed that the parents are just as to blame. Parents are far more likely to encourage their young boys to play guitar and drums, and to encourage their young girls to play piano and sing. The guitar is perceived as a masculine instrument by society, and so it follows that parents encourage boys to play with tonka toys and girls to play with dolls would be consistent in this. I love teaching young girls to play guitar and drums, and it sucks that they aren't encouraged more.

[Laihoard]

I hope this doesn't come off as sexist, but I find a lot of women in metal aren't suited for screaming. There are exceptions (I really like Alissa from Arch Enemy) but I generally find the taste hard to digest. Perhaps it's something with their vocal chords differing from male ones internally? I love seeing women in metal, for vocals I just prefer clean singing. Epica has an absolutely incredible vocalist and Skyforest had some very nice female vocals on a song from their latest release.

[FatherAlabaster]

I hope this doesn't come off as sexist, but I find a lot of women in metal aren't suited for screaming. There are exceptions (I really like Alissa from Arch Enemy) but I generally find the taste hard to digest. Perhaps it's something with their vocal chords differing from male ones internally? I love seeing women in metal, for vocals I just prefer clean singing. Epica has an absolutely incredible vocalist and Skyforest had some very nice female vocals on a song from their latest release.

This post seems to belong in one of the "female-fronted band" threads, rather than as a reply to this survey. Not that it matters; these survey people are kind of a bummer, I can hardly ever see what use they might get from answers to their uninformed questions, and (like the OP) they usually disappear before the conversation even starts. FWIW I tend to prefer lower voices most of the time (although I like Rush and The Mars Volta...) so the majority of bands I listen to have male vocalists. As far as screaming, I have to say I think women are simply struggling against statistics: there are far fewer female harsh vocalists in general. Just two weeks ago, I saw a local band whose vocalist was this tiny little Asian girl, and she was doing super-guttural low growls that sounded pretty good, all things considered. It's all technique. I can probably think of more guys whose voices I can't stand, than I can female harsh vocalists good or bad.

[espnmarshall]

I think its just like with music with clean vocals. There is a reason no one makes a baritone sing a tenor C; it sounds bad. Also, the vocalists sound can affect the mix relative to the instrumentation, and it's not as though when a female vocalist starts growling instead of a dude that the band changes to playing fiddles or something.

[FatherAlabaster]

I think its just like with music with clean vocals. There is a reason no one makes a baritone sing a tenor C; it sounds bad. Also' date=' the vocalists sound can affect the mix relative to the instrumentation, and it's not as though when a female vocalist starts growling instead of a dude that the band changes to playing fiddles or something.[/quote'] Honestly, range with screaming/growling is much more about vocal technique than it is the natural range of a person's singing or speaking voice. With some of the extended-range guttural stuff, it can even be about mic technique. I've heard enough female harsh vocalists live to be convinced that there's no specific, noticeable gender-based difference between male and female growls/screams, unlike the perception of timbre in clean vocals that usually identifies a voice as either male or female regardless of pitch. I'd also argue that it's not a sharp divide even there; I think there's a spectrum of ambiguous or gender-neutral voices, but the middle of the spectrum is underpopulated, so we generally have an easy time of "sexing" voices.