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Vorpal Sword

Anyone heard about the new work from Sleep?

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Cool Vorpal, Thanks for putting that up. I like the cleaner vocals especially. I thought that the intro and the end were both way to indulgent, be the middle was very enjoyable. I just listened to a bit of Dopesmoker the other day and got a bit bored, so my opinion is not an important one, as I'm clearly not a real fan of the band, but I'd hang up the BeeGees for at least long enough to listen to a whole new Sleep album. Could such a thing be in the works?

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Cool Vorpal' date=' Thanks for putting that up. I like the cleaner vocals especially. I thought that the intro and the end were both way to indulgent, be the middle was very enjoyable. I just listened to a bit of Dopesmoker the other day and got a bit bored, so my opinion is not an important one, as I'm clearly not a real fan of the band, but I'd hang up the BeeGees for at least long enough to listen to a whole new Sleep album. Could such a thing be in the works?[/quote'] You're welcome! I'm personally excited about the possibility of a new album, but I'm not sure when/if that might be.

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I was very disappointed. It felt lazy and unworked...as if going in a studio, playing two chords for 15 minutes and moaning over it then sticking Sleep 's name on it will be good enough. To be honest though, I loved Holy Mountain but thought Dopesmoker was a self indulgent crock of cack.

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I was very disappointed. It felt lazy and unworked...as if going in a studio' date=' playing two chords for 15 minutes and moaning over it then sticking Sleep 's name on it will be good enough. To be honest though, I loved Holy Mountain but thought Dopesmoker was a self indulgent crock of cack.[/quote'] Dopesmoker's not bad; I just gotta be in the mood for it. It's nowhere near as much of a stroke-off as Om is. Variations on a Theme was really just a variation on Dopesmoker just without the best part of metal--the guitars. Seriously, come on. Guitar-less metal sounds even thinner than bands without a bass.

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Honestly I'm not really familiar with their other stuff. I checked out Advaitic Songs on YouTube, but I don't recall much. I'll get back to their stuff at some point, but I haven't been thirsting for it lately. On a side note, I love tuning down, but I've tried to write strictly for bass and drums in the past and don't find it very fruitful. I have to admit that I'm impressed by anyone that can make it work on some level even if I'm never really blown away by the final result.

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I was very disappointed. It felt lazy and unworked...as if going in a studio' date=' playing two chords for 15 minutes and moaning over it then sticking Sleep 's name on it will be good enough. To be honest though, I loved Holy Mountain but thought Dopesmoker was a self indulgent crock of cack.[/quote'] I'm with you on that one man...Holy Mountain are their big guns I feel like. I can handle Dopesmoker for the first 12 hours, but it juuuuust keeeeeeeps gooooiiiiing. I guess that's the point, but I like the change-up style songwriting in Holy Mountain. Something that new song lacks. Maybe I'm just not cut out for doom in its entirety though. I can enjoy so much drone riffage, but I don't get off unless something breaks it apart and starts kickin'.

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I'm with you on that one man...Holy Mountain are their big guns I feel like. I can handle Dopesmoker for the first 12 hours' date=' but it juuuuust keeeeeeeps gooooiiiiing. I guess that's the point, but I like the change-up style songwriting in Holy Mountain. Something that new song lacks. Maybe I'm just not cut out for doom in its entirety though. I can enjoy so much drone riffage, but I don't get off unless something breaks it apart and starts kickin'.[/quote'] You really shouldn't judge an entire genre based off of one band's style. Like you said, Holy Mountain is varied and you've acknowledged the lack of variety in Dopesmoker. And it's not like Sleep has the biggest discography out there, so there's not much to choose from. There are plenty of doom metal bands with more interesting and technical riffing and aren't so minimalist and droney (I find it hard to sit down and listen to a "proper" drone album; most of it just meanders). Give it some time, ask for some recommendations, and you may find plenty of doom metal bands you enjoy quite a lot.

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You really shouldn't judge an entire genre based off of one band's style. Like you said, Holy Mountain is varied and you've acknowledged the lack of variety in Dopesmoker. And it's not like Sleep has the biggest discography out there, so there's not much to choose from. There are plenty of doom metal bands with more interesting and technical riffing and aren't so minimalist and droney (I find it hard to sit down and listen to a "proper" drone album; most of it just meanders). Give it some time, ask for some recommendations, and you may find plenty of doom metal bands you enjoy quite a lot.
There is a thread in the doom metal section called Doom 101 with video recommendations from all across the doom metal spectrum, maybe you should browse through there before disregarding one of metal's largest subgenres based on one band. There are similar threads in most of the different genre sections, all of them are pinned to the top for easy locating.

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You really shouldn't judge an entire genre based off of one band's style. Like you said, Holy Mountain is varied and you've acknowledged the lack of variety in Dopesmoker. And it's not like Sleep has the biggest discography out there, so there's not much to choose from. There are plenty of doom metal bands with more interesting and technical riffing and aren't so minimalist and droney (I find it hard to sit down and listen to a "proper" drone album; most of it just meanders). Give it some time, ask for some recommendations, and you may find plenty of doom metal bands you enjoy quite a lot.
Sorry, not trying to judge or disregard a whole genre. I didn't mean to sound like a know-it-all, just around here with the folk into that branch of music, there's kind of a thick fog on the bridge between stoner metal & doom...where does one end & the other begin? I think it's subjective, & obviously it's not just "one or the other" with most bands. But Sleep is a prime example of this for me; recognized by ones who associate with doom before stoner metal, & vice versa. When I sit and think about why Sleep is talked highly of in both worlds so adamantly, the way I take it in is by putting Holy Mountain & Jerusalem/Dopesmoker side by side & hearing an obvious difference. Although my logic is as flawed as many, I hear Dopesmoker being on the strong doom end, & Holy Mountain not so much. Helps me not get lost in the doom/stoner metal/sludge vortex that is. Another example (wrapping it up, for the sake of not going TOO far off on a tangent), being stoned at some party & finding myself in conversation about doom metal, I've brought up Sir Lord Baltimore & got the "sweet band, but that's not REALLY what I was talking about" response. It's all confusing. I'd imagine the same could happen with Blue Cheer & stoner rock/metal. There's no genre that's limited to ONE sound, but when I think "doom", I first think of the droney end of it as being the foundation (at least the foundation molded over the years)...that's just the way I figured it out to help clear the fog...

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I could meet you halfway & agree that all stoner metal has elements of doom metal, but still has something specific to it to make it it's own thing...I just think about these cats I jam with, we've been refer as stoner rock or stoner metal, or even Sabbath worship, but we are definitely not a doom band...I saw a thread on this forum about the band sHEAVY; same story for me. Stoner, yet not something that rings as "doom"...Fatso Jetson, Fu Manchu, shit man, even Kyuss. I guess those bands could be considered "rock" rather than "metal", maybe that's where the difference lies? I can see your point, but I don't think I agree with just "All stoner metal is doom metal". A parallel to that could be "All doom is heavy metal". By technicality it is accurate I suppose, but just don't seem right...eh? What would be the point of subgenres? If we're goin' that route, it might as well all be the blues & classical man ;)

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I could meet you halfway & agree that all stoner metal has elements of doom metal' date=' but still has something specific to it to make it it's own thing...I just think about these cats I jam with, we've been refer as stoner rock or stoner metal, or even Sabbath worship, but we are definitely not a doom band...I saw a thread on this forum about the band sHEAVY; same story for me. Stoner, yet not something that rings as "doom"...Fatso Jetson, Fu Manchu, shit man, even Kyuss. I guess those bands could be considered "rock" rather than "metal", maybe that's where the difference lies? I can see your point, but I don't think I agree with just "All stoner metal is doom metal". A parallel to that could be "All doom is heavy metal". By technicality it is accurate I suppose, but just don't seem right...eh? What would be the point of subgenres? If we're goin' that route, it might as well all be the blues & classical man ;)[/quote'] Stoner metal is a subgenre of doom metal, stoner rock is something else entirely, which is why it's called stoner rock and not stoner metal. Kyuss, Fu Manchu, and Monster Magnet are a long way from Church of Misery, Weedeater, Electric Wizard, Goatsnake, etc... All doom metal is heavy metal, as it is a subgenre of heavy metal, but not all heavy metal is doom metal, just like with stoner metal.

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Stoner metal is a subgenre of doom metal' date=' stoner rock is something else entirely, which is why it's called stoner rock and not stoner metal. Kyuss, Fu Manchu, and Monster Magnet are a long way from Church of Misery, Weedeater, Electric Wizard, Goatsnake, etc... All doom metal is heavy metal, as it is a subgenre of heavy metal, but not all heavy metal is doom metal, just like with stoner metal.[/quote'] Man, Kyuss may be a long way from a band like Electric Wizard, but I would put money on that they played a large part in the development of "stoner metal" in that time... Shit man, the more I think about it, I'd almost say its unfair to deem the slower (& sometimes droney) take on the heavy metal revival "stoner metal" because its derived from doom, but then write of the more upbeat side of the heavy metal revival as simply "stoner rock" & that its a completely different thing...in my head it sounds like saying "the song Electric Funeral is heavy metal, but the song Rat Salat is hard rock"... I'm going to go on ahead and make the claim that Kyuss can totally be recognized as a stoner metal band, therefore stoner metal (in my theory) cannot be recognized only as a form of doom, therefore (in my theory) you can't be too upset with me for affiliating doom with "droney", therefore me saying "Maybe I'm just not cut out for doom in its entirety though. I can enjoy so much drone riffage, but I don't get off unless something breaks it apart and starts kickin'." has some validity to it! Where's my jury at? ;) That's my case! Man, life would be boring if everyone agreed all the time...

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Man, Kyuss may be a long way from a band like Electric Wizard, but I would put money on that they played a large part in the development of "stoner metal" in that time... Shit man, the more I think about it, I'd almost say its unfair to deem the slower (& sometimes droney) take on the heavy metal revival "stoner metal" because its derived from doom, but then write of the more upbeat side of the heavy metal revival as simply "stoner rock" & that its a completely different thing...in my head it sounds like saying "the song Electric Funeral is heavy metal, but the song Rat Salat is hard rock"... I'm going to go on ahead and make the claim that Kyuss can totally be recognized as a stoner metal band, therefore stoner metal (in my theory) cannot be recognized only as a form of doom, therefore (in my theory) you can't be too upset with me for affiliating doom with "droney", therefore me saying "Maybe I'm just not cut out for doom in its entirety though. I can enjoy so much drone riffage, but I don't get off unless something breaks it apart and starts kickin'." has some validity to it! Where's my jury at? ;) That's my case! Man, life would be boring if everyone agreed all the time...
I don't know how large their influence would have been, as stoner metal and stoner rock were taking off around the same time (along with sludge, doom/death, funeral doom, and other doom influenced genres of music), but I'm sure that plenty of stoner metal bands listen to stoner rock bands and vice versa. It's not as though they're wholly different, but one has a sound based in metal, the other has a sound based in rock, much like the difference between gothic rock and gothic metal. I'm sure that both sides draw tons of influence from Sabbath, but the same can be said for nearly any genre of rock or metal, so I don't think that's enough to say that they're the same.

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Its almost as if "stoner" needs its own recognition...whether it be stoner (rock) or stoner (metal), there is a connection & it caters to the same hunger in music taste. The fog I was speaking of over the bridge between "stoner metal & doom", might better be worded as the fog over the bridge between "stoner & doom", if simply "stoner" had its own branch in the music world. The style of Kyuss definitely birthed desert rock, which was coined as stoner rock & led to bands like Fatso Jetson, Fu Manchu, etc. Then there was the other end of the same street, with Sleep, who seemed to coin the term stoner metal & led to bands like Om, Bongzilla, Weedeater, etc. So obviously there's the doom aspect & the 70's rock aspects in the stoner rock/metal world. After Kyuss, then after Sleep, the style seemed to kind grow in two different directions. I still say they're under the same tree though. Stoner metal & stoner rock oughta be fused for simplicity's sake. Probably why we're going into this so far. It'd be a lot easier to understand & agree that some "stoner" music is strongly doom influenced, whereas some of it isn't so much about the doom and emulates the retro 70's style. There's even some I've heard that land smack dab in the middle...and saying a band is "stoner rock/metal" just looks tacky ;)

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Gotta say. The new song sounds alright, but not anything mindblowing. Main problem to me is that while the music is suitably Sleep, Al Cisneros doesn't seem to realize that he's not singing in Om. His monotone delivery doesn't quite suit the energy of a Sleep song. Riffs are on point though.

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13 hours ago, demon_lung said:

I think their new album is their best work since Holy Mountain.

Opinions?

While I have not delved deep into much of their material, I enjoyed their new album quite a bit.  It had a perfect blend of drones and rhythm.  I really should pick up a copy.

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