mainstream success and metal...

[Bastet]

I think fallen angel666 is talking about the 'classic metal' that involved breaking chords into arpeggios to create a unique sound with a melody on top. It is this done today it just depends on the sub-genre you are listening to. Plus a lot of sub-genres mix with each other. Something like Satyricon's Phoenix or Cradle of Filth's Temptation. It's just a matter of finding a hidden gem within the mass collection of metal that sticks in with you.

[Iceni]

I think fallen angel666 is talking about the 'classic metal' that involved breaking chords into arpeggios to create a unique sound with a melody on top. It is this done today it just depends on the sub-genre you are listening to. Plus a lot of sub-genres mix with each other. Something like Satyricon's Phoenix or Cradle of Filth's Temptation. It's just a matter of finding a hidden gem within the mass collection of metal that sticks in with you.

If that's true, then thank you very much for the clarification. I just wish he/she had said that. Which subgenres do this? I'm not a musical expert but I'd assume it's common to many if not all metal genres.

[GorboGorboze]

I am surly the consummate newbie, but this is my first dark field comment entry, so I feel the Metal Gods will that my input be permitted. Metal will parish from this world, as everything will. I doubt that it would even survive long without the aid of electricity, though it might. Much has been heavy and much has made sense. Take Turandot as an example. It is always heavy, it always makes sense, it does not need electricity. It can always be rendered adequately by highly trained professionals. It is not metal. As professional opera singers, just by way of an example, perfect their technique, they come to resemble one another. Would anyone agree with me that Metal is about differentiation? I've never heard another voice like Ozzy's, nor (say what you will about him and his silly little hair band) one like the voice of Bon Jovi. Well, that is true of all folk music. What is special about Metal? Its plunges its hands into a bee hive to yank out honey and eats it savoring both the stinging pain and the sweet delight. Sorry, that was just facile melodrama. I don't know what the fuck Metal is, but I wish to hell I could play it, because that would be fucking awesome.

[Bastet]

If that's true' date=' then thank you very much for the clarification. I just wish [i']he/she had said that. Which subgenres do this? I'm not a musical expert but I'd assume it's common to many if not all metal genres.

Some people just have a hard time explaining themselves. I guess I've always just been one of those people that find it easy to explain music. Anyways, I'm not sure of which sub-genres do it mostly just because there are soo many of them. It's like EDM and its ever growing sound, which just blows my mind how fast it grows... I'll have to get back to you on that. My brain is just so full with trying to finish my own EP, that's hard to think about anything else but composing.

[deathstorm]

Cool what brand of metal is it the ep based one

[MacabreEternal]

I am surly the consummate newbie' date=' but this is my first dark field comment entry, so I feel the Metal Gods will that my input be permitted. Metal will parish from this world, as everything will. I doubt that it would even survive long without the aid of electricity, though it might. Much has been heavy and much has made sense. Take Turandot as an example. It is always heavy, it always makes sense, it does not need electricity. It can always be rendered adequately by highly trained professionals. It is not metal. As professional opera singers, just by way of an example, perfect their technique, they come to resemble one another. Would anyone agree with me that Metal is about differentiation? I've never heard another voice like Ozzy's, nor (say what you will about him and his silly little hair band) one like the voice of Bon Jovi. Well, that is true of all folk music. What is special about Metal? Its plunges its hands into a bee hive to yank out honey and eats it savoring both the stinging pain and the sweet delight. Sorry, that was just facile melodrama. I don't know what the fuck Metal is, but I wish to hell I could play it, because that would be fucking awesome.[/quote'] I've read this post 3 times and don't understand any of it.

[Bastet]

Cool what brand of metal is it the ep based one

I'm doing an instrumental folk metal style.

[FatherAlabaster]

The whole thing's a mess. Bastet - not sure where you got the idea that fallen angel meant something about arpeggiated chords, the only example he/she gave was Iron Maiden's lyrics. Gorbo seems to be saying that A) in contrast to fallen angel's assertion that "metal will never die" or whatever, it probably will disappear at some point because the sounds are dependent on modern technology; and that metal, and other forms of folk (popular) music, focus more on the unique aspects of a person's "sound" and performance, as opposed to music in the Western classical tradition, which treats performers as interchangeable parts. Both of these things are true up to a point, though I'd argue that classical music leaves room for, and requires, just as much personal expressiveness - at least from certain players - and its performance is a lot more demanding and refined. Mainstream success doesn't inevitably ruin bands. The assertion that metal "will never die" seems unrelated - and ironic, coming from the same people that think it needs to "stay pure"... I mean come on, where are all the new ideas supposed to come from... not to mention the incoherence of saying it'll "never die" while also claiming that "bands these days suck" (which one is it?). But there is something that drags these threads together, and Gorbo may have unwittingly touched on it. It's conformism, plain and simple. The vast majority of the music I've heard wasn't written by daringly unique thinkers, but by bandwagon-jumpers who had the willingness to refine someone else's ideas, and find their own identity through them. Examples abound at every level of production, from the local band to the international phenomenon. I don't know if I can call it a problem, so much as just a fact of life. The "metal" ethos has a lot more to do with group loyalty than it does with individuality; and being inspired to write music is often just as simple as hearing a song and wanting to write something similar. This isn't to say that bands do nothing but rip each other off, but rather to point out that we don't create in a vacuum, and that most people would rather hear music that sounds like other music that they already like, most of the time. Some bands have managed to strike a very successful and listenable balance while playing it safe. It's also important to note how quickly ideas can spread to become the "new normal", like with the lo-fi, reverb-drenched dissonant death metal that's coming from all corners these days (I love that shit, don't get me wrong). The same force that's creating "movements" and inspiring solidarity in subgenres is the force that can lead to stagnation, if artists and audiences don't stay open-minded and keep pushing themselves to create and/or discover new things. The great thing is that that's still happening. And really, after all, it's the only antidote to dissatisfaction with our musical experience.

[deathstorm]

I'm doing an instrumental folk metal style.

That awsomes. Bastet.

[Bastet]

Father Alabaster- I said it before and I'll say it again. Metal is an epic unique art form, and that is all that matters. There are so many different types of metal out there that we all have our own opinions on things. So I say let it be.

[BlutAusNerd]

Fuck, I leave for one long weekend and this is what I come back to? Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[FatherAlabaster]

Hilarious, right? You picked the wrong weekend...

[Iceni]

Well, I'm SOOORRY..

[deathstorm]

Me too we are sorry

[Bastet]

Now i feel bad...sorry.

[ManInTheBox]

We tell each other we don’t need the mainstream (and indeed, with the growth of more and more viable DIY methods, we’ve seen bands forging ever more successful careers without ever achieving any sort of acknowledgement by the wider public consciousness), but we’ll take any opportunity to grab their attention. And I’ll tell you now, I’m not innocent of this. I’ve taken many opportunities to try and expose others to non-mainstream metal bands, based on the idea that they are somehow “better” – and yet, why do I do this? What’s behind this odd need for celebration or recognition?Well for one thing, we’re largely the ‘misfits’ of society. Sometimes we choose to be so, to be different (deciding you like metal can still serve to ostracise you from certain parts of the community, even in these days), and sometimes we’re misfits for other reasons, who are drawn to metal as a music designed and welcoming for the ‘outsiders’. Yet still, there’s undeniably a part of us that’s always looking to “show” the world how good we are, how we aren’t really misfits/weirdos/whatever. And that’s fine. But we have to acknowledge that this is still looking for recognition from mainstream society. It’s the central dichotomy of metal as a cultural movement, the rejection of mainstream conformity coupled with a subtle sense of “look, we’re just as good as YOU are”. No matter how much we deny it, there will always be a part of us that would like to be ‘cool’, even if only to see what it’s like for a while.

[FatherAlabaster]

We tell each other we don’t need the mainstream (and indeed' date= with the growth of more and more viable DIY methods, we’ve seen bands forging ever more successful careers without ever achieving any sort of acknowledgement by the wider public consciousness), but we’ll take any opportunity to grab their attention. And I’ll tell you now, I’m not innocent of this. I’ve taken many opportunities to try and expose others to non-mainstream metal bands, based on the idea that they are somehow “better” – and yet, why do I do this? What’s behind this odd need for celebration or recognition?Well for one thing, we’re largely the ‘misfits’ of society. Sometimes we choose to be so, to be different (deciding you like metal can still serve to ostracise you from certain parts of the community, even in these days), and sometimes we’re misfits for other reasons, who are drawn to metal as a music designed and welcoming for the ‘outsiders’. Yet still, there’s undeniably a part of us that’s always looking to “show” the world how good we are, how we aren’t really misfits/weirdos/whatever. And that’s fine. But we have to acknowledge that this is still looking for recognition from mainstream society. It’s the central dichotomy of metal as a cultural movement, the rejection of mainstream conformity coupled with a subtle sense of “look, we’re just as good as YOU are”. No matter how much we deny it, there will always be a part of us that would like to be ‘cool’, even if only to see what it’s like for a while.

Can't say I agree with the idea that we're all reaching for mainstream acceptance. You're casting too wide a net. It's fine if you feel this way, and attempt to share the things you like about metal with people who wouldn't ordinarily appreciate it. I suppose I've done the same, by sharing my own music with my friends, and I used to have more of a desire for the people around me to like the same things I liked, but I don't think that was about validation so much as just a wish to share things I enjoyed. It seems as though you're talking about metal music, as it is, being accepted by individuals within the mainstream audience, rather than the more widespread "cultural" acceptance that some people have mentioned in various threads (i.e. metal finding a place on mainstream radio, being heard as background music, or in general being used in the same consumable, environmental capacity that pop music is), or the related tendency of some bands to infuse their songwriting with pop sensibilities in an attempt to increase market share, palatability, what-have-you. The thing that I've found over the years is that metal is very much an acquired taste. Even in cases where the songwriting is easily digested, a lot of it remains sonically challenging and abrasive. A great number of people don't want to put up with it. By far the most common complaint I hear is about the vocals; a lot of people simply don't want to hear screaming. Many listeners are also put off by the prevalence of distorted guitar sounds. This is totally understandable to me; there are times when I don't want to hear metal either. Far be it from me to tell someone that their taste is objectively wrong, or force their appreciation. Like I say, it's fine that you feel the way you do, but recognize that you're speaking for yourself.