Controversial Metal Opinions

[RelentlessOblivion]

17 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Umm, that's exactly what an opinion is...

 

'I like doom metal' would be an expression of personal taste. It's not my opinion that I like doom. It is an objective fact. The person making that statement likes the object of that sentence.

 

'I think Macdonald's is the best food in the world' would be an opinion. The person is expressing a particular view not objective fact.

[FatherAlabaster]

56 minutes ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

'I like doom metal' would be an expression of personal taste. It's not my opinion that I like doom. It is an objective fact. 

FINALLY SOME REAL CONTROVERSY

[RelentlessOblivion]

By their very nature opinions are non-conclusive statements. Given that liking a particular thing is conclusive how can it be an opinion? I could express a similar sentiment as an opinion i.e. Doom metal is the best metal sub-genre. That would also suggest that I like doom. I would say expressing one's like or dislike of a particular thing is an empirical statement of fact. You are aware of your feelings on the subject, they are uniquely yours, and they can be conclusively proven.

 

I'm suddenly disgusted by the ineloquent manner in which my argument was made. Good thing I decided not to pursue petty argument (law) as a career.

[FatherAlabaster]

30 minutes ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

By their very nature opinions are non-conclusive statements. Given that liking a particular thing is conclusive how can it be an opinion? I could express a similar sentiment as an opinion i.e. Doom metal is the best metal sub-genre. That would also suggest that I like doom. I would say expressing one's like or dislike of a particular thing is an empirical statement of fact. You are aware of your feelings on the subject, they are uniquely yours, and they can be conclusively proven.

 

I'm suddenly disgusted by the ineloquent manner in which my argument was made. Good thing I decided not to pursue petty argument (law) as a career.

You've got it backwards. Your view or judgement about something's worth, quality, enjoyability, etc is your opinion. That's what "opinion" means. You can say that "RelentlessOblivion likes doom" is a statement of fact, because it's true that you like doom, but it's a fact about your opinion. You have a "high opinion" of doom. Saying "doom is the best subgenre" reads like an opinion because most of us know that you can't make a factual statement about something that subjective and we all understand that it's preceded by the unwritten "I think that..." But if you're NTNR you might not pick up on that unwritten preface, because you're confused and think that doom actually is objectively the best subgenre, when the correct answer is clearly death metal.

[Balor]

5 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

you're confused and think that doom actually is objectively the best subgenre, when the correct answer is clearly death metal.

Looks like you misspelled black metal... It is clearly the best genre!

[RelentlessOblivion]

9 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

You've got it backwards. Your view or judgement about something's worth, quality, enjoyability, etc is your opinion. That's what "opinion" means. You can say that "RelentlessOblivion likes doom" is a statement of fact, because it's true that you like doom, but it's a fact about your opinion. You have a "high opinion" of doom. Saying "doom is the best subgenre" reads like an opinion because most of us know that you can't make a factual statement about something that subjective and we all understand that it's preceded by the unwritten "I think that..." But if you're NTNR you might not pick up on that unwritten preface, because you're confused and think that doom actually is objectively the best subgenre, when the correct answer is clearly death metal.

This is why I shouldn't post anything after 9pm...

 

Also we all know extreme raw deathgrind is the supreme genre

[Lurrbabar]

Yngwie Malmsteen is playing with feel and soul. I'll stand by this rigidly. He's not just fast but incredibly delicate in an unsurpassed manner.

Disclaimer: Before the car crash and the 90s happened

[Requiem]

Wow, how did I miss this great discussion?

That Babymetal, call - amazing. In 2018 metal has more variety, styles, production variations, than any time in history. There's every style and sub-genre under the sun. And with people being able to produce music in their bedrooms, innovation for better or worse, is ubiquitous. 

[Ecthelion]

On 3/23/2018 at 6:07 AM, Lurrbabar said:

Yngwie Malmsteen is playing with feel and soul. I'll stand by this rigidly. He's not just fast but incredibly delicate in an unsurpassed manner.

Indeed. To ignore his superb melodic sensibilities along with his astonishing technique and put him in the same box as guitarists like The Great Kat is insulting as hell. Especially considering that he managed to carve out an influential style that was inspired by several other guitarists who already had ludicrously developed styles like Blackmore and Roth that still garnered many imitators. 

[BlutAusNerd]

Indeed. To ignore his superb melodic sensibilities along with his astonishing technique and put him in the same box as guitarists like The Great Kat is insulting as hell. Especially considering that he managed to carve out an influential style that was inspired by several other guitarists who already had ludicrously developed styles like Blackmore and Roth that still garnered many imitators. 

Yeah, I guess I just don't hear it. Lumping him in with The Great Kat and other "shred for the sake of it" types seems only natural.

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[Ecthelion]

5 minutes ago, BlutAusNerd said:

Yeah, I guess I just don't hear it. Lumping him in with The Great Kat and other "shred for the sake of it" types seems only natural.

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I get it if you don't like shred but there should be a clearly audible difference in the way Yngwie writes and performs in comparison to guitarists like Kat. 

If you honestly think Trilogy Suite Op. 5...

sounds the same as anything that she's originally written, I have no clue what to tell you. He's clearly far more developed in both composition and skill. 

 

[Lurrbabar]

I'm in no other case a fan of Power Metal and would never listen to Blind Guardian or Running Wild but Yngwie makes that genre work. He's letting out the ugly sounds while others would try to play pretty. Imagine it being a violin and Paganini would play it, dancing on the edge between triumph and disaster. He knows he'll pull it off and could do it with his eyes closed. The instrument would crumble under his fingers, he's playing it to death and he would just take another one. They're disposable, something will have to give way under his uncompromising grasp. The tone is gonna be pulled out of it until it's dry.

Listen to the solo in Magic Mirror! Unsurpassed! On the Run Again is a powerhouse.
Even his rhythm playing is a marvel of it's own.

[BlutAusNerd]

I'm in no other case a fan of Power Metal and would never listen to Blind Guardian or Running Wild but Yngwie makes that genre work. He's letting out the ugly sounds while others would try to play pretty. Imagine it being a violin and Paganini would play it, dancing on the edge between triumph and disaster. He knows he'll pull it off and could do it with his eyes closed. The instrument would crumble under his fingers, he's playing it to death and he would just take another one. They're disposable, something will have to give way under his uncompromising grasp. The tone is gonna be pulled out of it until it's dry.

Listen to the solo in Magic Mirror! Unsurpassed! On the Run Again is a powerhouse.
Even his rhythm playing is a marvel of it's own.

Yngwie isn't power metal, and unlike Yngwie, Blind Guardian and Running Wild write songs that are more than just vehicles to deliver his guitar solos. They couldn't be more different.

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[FatherAlabaster]

I know a few good players who really enjoy Yngwie, and I respect where they're coming from, but I've never been much of a connoisseur of playing for playing's sake. Stylistically his music turns me off. If I'm missing out as a result, I'm ok with that.

[BlutAusNerd]

I know a few good players who really enjoy Yngwie, and I respect where they're coming from, but I've never been much of a connoisseur of playing for playing's sake. Stylistically his music turns me off. If I'm missing out as a result, I'm ok with that.

That's how I feel about it. I'm all about technicality if it's used to further the song, but gratuitous use of it doesn't make the music more enjoyable IMO. Nobody said the guy couldn't play, just that he can't write songs that hold my attention.

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[Will]

5 hours ago, BlutAusNerd said:

Yngwie isn't power metal, and unlike Yngwie, Blind Guardian and Running Wild write songs that are more than just vehicles to deliver his guitar solos. They couldn't be more different.

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I feel the same way about Cacophony, it seems that some of the songs were written in 20 minutes with the solos being written for months.

[Lurrbabar]

9 hours ago, BlutAusNerd said:

Yngwie isn't power metal, and unlike Yngwie, Blind Guardian and Running Wild write songs that are more than just vehicles to deliver his guitar solos. They couldn't be more different.

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He's using all the tropes of Power Metal, it'd be pretty nitpicky to not be able to call it that. I could list you a bunch of songs. Already listed two 

[BlutAusNerd]

He's using all the tropes of Power Metal, it'd be pretty nitpicky to not be able to call it that. I could list you a bunch of songs. Already listed two 

What tropes would those be, that a guitar and drums are involved and there's a dragon on the album cover? The difference is that the "examples" you posted weren't songs, they were just guitar exhibitions. The drums only existed as a metronome and the keyboards sounded like they were added as an afterthought to beef up some parts, otherwise it was just several minutes of wank. No narrative, no direction, no purpose, just a dude playing with himself. It was basically just Bach with a guitar, so I don't see how that's any different from The Great Kat or other pointless shredders who spent all of their time refining their playing style, but never learned how to write a song.

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[Lurrbabar]

30 minutes ago, BlutAusNerd said:

What tropes would those be, that a guitar and drums are involved and there's a dragon on the album cover? The difference is that the "examples" you posted weren't songs, they were just guitar exhibitions. The drums only existed as a metronome and the keyboards sounded like they were added as an afterthought to beef up some parts, otherwise it was just several minutes of wank. No narrative, no direction, no purpose, just a dude playing with himself. It was basically just Bach with a guitar, so I don't see how that's any different from The Great Kat or other pointless shredders who spent all of their time refining their playing style, but never learned how to write a song.

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Somebody's got their panties all tangled up it seems. You sure you're not thinking of that other guy who posted that Trilogy Suite thing? That would be a bad representation of what I'm trying to convey but if you actually listened to the songs I was talking about then fair enough.

[BlutAusNerd]

Somebody's got their panties all tangled up it seems. You sure you're not thinking of that other guy who posted that Trilogy Suite thing? That would be a bad representation of what I'm trying to convey but if you actually listened to the songs I was talking about then fair enough.

The Trilogy Suite was the only link I saw, and it certainly didn't help the case being made. However, I did used to work at a record store that sold Yngwie's albums, and would play copies on the stereo for people who were interested. I remember one particular instance with a guy who was interested in a $50 Japanese import of one of his albums, and after the first song finished, I was left scratching my head as he pulled out his wallet. I just don't see the point when I can hear other musicians play solos that are just as impressive, but are contained within a song that's actually compelling and meaningful.

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[Lurrbabar]

 

[Ecthelion]

 

[BlutAusNerd]

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The first song very much falls in line with what I'm talking about. This "song" sounds like nothing more than a vehicle in which to house the guitar solo. It was admittedly a good solo, but wading through the dull riffs and silly vocal lines to get to it was taxing. The second song was similar, but had a decent intro riff and some better vocal lines that almost would have made a better song if they had put more focus on those elements and less on the solos. Either way, I'm not hearing anything power metal here. It sounds more like glam with neoclassical shredding to me ears.

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Wow, that was actually a decent song! Color me surprised to hear a speed metal riff and some good vocal lines. I guess that makes one in a row...

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[MattCantina]

I'm definetely not a fan of Malmsteen, but this song has a cool vibe

 

[Lurrbabar]

Sure, at least you gave my case a look on.
While we're talking about good Yngwie songs I'll recommend Caught in the Middle, I'll See the Light Tonight and Now Your Ships Are Burned. Won't crowd this tread with videos and stuff.
Maybe there is an Yngwie thread somewhere.

Another controversial Metal Opinion of mine is that I don't like Painkiller with Judas Priest very much.
I've always been into the Defenders of the Faith period. The early mid-80s were the golden age of the band.
But their most recent album I like now already from the start. Weird.
It's also the same with Iron Maiden's Be Quick and Be Dead. It's got the same kinda vibe and it kinda makes the song a bit boring.