GoatmasterGeneral

Protector - A Shedding of Skin, German death/thrash 1991 (I didn't even see Yannis post before I posted this) Sarcófago - Hate, Brazil 1994

Black Ceremonial Kult - Crowned in Chaos, EP 2021 Chilean black/death Saturnus - Death Devotion EP, Chilean black/death Inexistência - From These Ruins Come Ancient Curses, EP Brazilian black

Just emailed the band, and they agreed that's gonna be the perfect title for their second album: Moribund Doxology. Endless Loss - Traversing the Mephitic Artery, crusty black/death from the hellscapes of Adelaide SA

I dismissed Krisiun a decade ago as being one dimensional and worthless. But in light of some of this brutal death metal I've been listening to lately, it might be time for me to revisit the Brazilian trio. Krisiun - Southern Storm, 2008. Picked this one just because it's their highest rated full length on M-A with a 91%. Yeah as expected it's aggressive and brutal, but the songs aren't there. The solos don't seem to have any relation to the rest of the song, they're just kinda slapped on. Not nearly as bad as Deicide, I'll give 'em that. Halfway through I'll even say they're a little better than I'd remembered, but that's the only real positive thing I can say about it, I wouldn't buy this. Iron Monkey - Spleen and Goad, 2024. Didn't realize they'd reformed in 2017.

Skuggor - Whispers of Ancient Spells, Sweden

Mater Dolorosa. Latin noun phrase: sorrowful mother — used especially for depictions of the Virgin Mary grieving over her dead son. It's an iconic thing in predominantly Catholic countries like Spain where the band is from, there are hundreds of paintings and statues of the grieving Mother Mary, "Mater Dolorosa." Literally translated the word "dolorosa" means painful. From Wikipedia: Our Lady of Sorrows (Latin: Beata Maria Virgo Perdolens), Our Lady of Dolours, the Sorrowful Mother or Mother of Sorrows (Latin: Mater Dolorosa), and Our Lady of Piety, Our Lady of the Seven Sorrows or Our Lady of the Seven Dolours are names by which Mary, mother of Jesus, is referred to in relation to sorrows in life. As Mater Dolorosa, it is also a key subject for Marian art in the Catholic Church. The Seven Sorrows of Mary are a popular religious theme and a Catholic devotion. In Christian imagery, the Virgin Mary is portrayed sorrowful and in tears, with one or seven swords piercing her heart, iconography based on the prophecy of Simeon in Luke 2:34–35. Pious practices in reference to this title include the Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows, the Seven Principal Dolors of the Blessed Virgin, the Novena in Honor of the Seven Sorrows of Mary, and the Via Matris. The feast of Our Lady of Sorrows is liturgically celebrated every 15 September, while a feast, the Friday of Sorrows is observed in some Catholic countries.

Alright now Cabbage, what kind of dumbass nonsensical drivel is this?? We all slow down as we age?? Older people complain about how some people talk too fast?? Fuck you bruv, you can slow down to a crawl when you hit 40 if you like, but this old geezer's only getting leaner and meaner and faster and faster and more brutal with each passing year. By the time I'm Doc's age I'll be moving at light speed bruv, Mach 874,030. 😎 Haha but ok yeah seriously Chechnya is wack man. 80 to 116 bpm is pretty damn slow. Obviously this was a backdoor way for them to outlaw all or most forms of western popular music. Both top 40 pop music and hip-hop in particular generally have higher BPM than 116. I looked it up, one study said there are four levels of popular musical tempos. They are slow (66-76 bpm), medium (76-120 bpm), fast (120-168 bpm), and very fast (168-200 bpm). I'd think a lot of EDM would be up toward the higher end of that range, 130 to 150 bpm at least, so this must be like Footloose where they think they can protect the kids from the evils of dancing. I guess they couldn't set the upper limit too low or they'd end up outlawing all music completely, even the traditional Chechnyan stuff they want to encourage. 116 seems like a strange choice though, wonder how they arrived at that number?

Haha Surge is still alive, I just saw him post a pic of the eclipse obscured by clouds yesterday on the 13 man txt thread we're both a part of. But he doesn't really pop in there so much anymore and neither do I really. I spend more time here. He threw in the towel on his former commercial carpet cleaning business a couple of years ago and went out and earned himself a high falutin college degree. So now he's joined the actual smart people workforce and he doesn't seem to have the same kind of free time like he once used to. I'm sure he still posts on a metal forum somewhere like NCS probably, but I don't have to tell you there are only so many hours in a day for this shit. Surge and I do have a reasonable amount of overlap musically, but his tastes seems to be just as specific as mine if not even more so, just in slightly different areas. So like we both consume a ton of black metal, but I'm more into caustic riffy Norsecore, Finnblack, first wave influenced stuff as well as black/death & war metal while he seems to be super into that fuzzily produced atmo-black right on the edge of lo-fi and some folk metal. We definitely like some of each other's stuff, we do both dig a bunch of the Finnish bands I think, but I think he and I are mainly focused in different areas and probably out hunting for different shit. Same with death metal, he goes more for the mid-paced Swedeath, Bolt Thrower and European style bands, some Chilean death, classic death/doom and maybe some more melodic Amon Amarth type viking stuff, while I cast a somewhat wider death metal net. I like all that kind of stuff he likes as well, (not the Amon Amarth so much) but I do also tend to go more for the ugly brulal and putrid caverncore, Incantation clones and more recently I've been getting into a ton of deathgrind and old late 90's/early 00's era BDM. Mortician, Malignancy, Suffocation, Exhumed, Devourment, Deranged stuff like that which I don't think he has much interest in if any. I didn't either tbh just a few years ago, but this is where my natural progression of heaviness has taken me. Seems I need it heavier and heavier and ever more brutal to get the same high off of it if ya know what I mean. Besides the black and death metal I know he dips his tootsies into stuff like modern day heavy metal and thrash which I have little to no interest in (unless it's been very heavily blackened) while as you probably know I'm heavily into grindcore, hardcore, punk rock, and of course boatloads of crust and stenchore, which I don't think he's too interested in. So you can see when you drill down a bit and take core samples there's not as much crossover between us cool cats as one might think. So sure, to the uninitiated we would both appear to be mostly into black and death metal, same basic shit, right? And it's also true we do both have a strong aversion to prog, hipster black, tech death and twinkcore. But to the well traveled extreme metal connoisseur he and I actually have somewhat different and pretty clearly defined tastes. We could both make top 25 year end lists and only have maybe 4 or 5 albums in common. There I go overexplaining again. Sorry dude, I know you don't read anything I write that's more than 3 paragraphs and that was just 5.

Well it's filler to make the albums or EP's appear longer than they really are because clearly they didn't have another actual track to put in that slot. The worst is when it's just like a short little 15 or 20 minute EP with a 3 or 4 minute intro track. Weaksauce. I just wanna tell them "Dudes, put the damn bong down for 10 minutes and write another fucking song!!"

Was almost tempted to check this Maximum Overdrive record out to dispute your claim that there are no weak tracks (because I'm firmly convinced they're ALL weak tracks) but I'm not tryna click play on no fkn Dragonforce videos. Could you even imagine what something like that would do to my sidebar feed? Might take weeks or even months before YouTube would want to offer me something good and filthy and evil again. So I'm gonna have to let your ridiculous claim go by unchallenged....this time JT. Consider yourself lucky my friend. 😜

I automatically skip roughly 90 seconds ahead on every YT album video i click on to hopefully skip the intros. Pisses me off when 90 seconds isn't far enough 'cause they've got a 3 or 4 minute intro. Can't imagine there'd be any metalhead in the entire world who really wants to sit through a pointless 3 or 4 minute intro.

Ululatum Tollunt - Order of the Morningstars, war metal from Tennessee, 2016. Thanks @navybsn I had missed this one and it's killer. Temple Nightside - Hecatomb, black/death Australia 2016 Temple Nightside - Pillars of Damnation 2020

I never used to do this years ago because I was working stupid hours and just didn't have the time. But for me personally we've just in these last 10 or 15 years really gotten into this golden era of extreme metal where I'm finding the highest percentage of killer shit that's the kind of music I've always been looking for. I could probably let most of that old 20th century stuff go and just listen to my newer music from the 21st century and be quite happy. If I'd have had music available to me that I felt this way about back in the old days, I never would have bought 90% of the stuff that I did back then in the 70's 80's and 90's. Because there's only maybe 10% of that old stuff that I still have any interest in ever hearing again. This newer modern era black and death metal is the music I've always been meant to listen to, I was just born about 15 years too soon you see. So I'm stocking up on all this shit now while it's readily available as a hedge against the day when the torrent of killer music slows to a trickle and then inevitably peters out altogether eventually. I'll have my blackened goat filth already sorted and then everything will be apples for my few remaining twilight years walking this earth as a decrepit old goat.

The epicenter of the recent earthquake here in NJ was less than 10 miles from Benedict Donald's Bedminster golf club and burial ground. I'm choosing to take that as a sign from Jehoshaphat that the orange menace better watch his fucking ass.

I would happily use the filters and shortcuts too my friend if they took me even close to where I wanted to go. But my problem is they inevitably take me much farther away from my intended destination, so they're of no use to me. Obviously it'd be so much easier for me to just be able to enjoy whatever music was readily available, like turning on the radio was for lots of people I knew back in the day. I'd love it if I could just buy like the 40 albums on the Decibel list every year and then just enjoy them and be done with it. But that method doesn't work for me. I have some pretty specific requirements for what I want from my music, and I have yet to find a reliable source (other than Marko) who consistently nails it and gives me the type of music I'll most likely dig. So to find what I specifically want, I know I'm going to have to put in the time, there's just no way around it. Because if I don't even know what I want until I find it, how is anyone else supposed to know? But that's ok because I happen to actually enjoy the hunt for new music, and at least I do feel that for the most part the bulk of that time I've invested has consistently paid back some pretty solid dividends. If it didn't, I guess I'd stop wasting my time fishing in the fishless lake, and I'd be back to square one. But I can certainly understand that you, like many others need filters and shortcuts, and I'm truly glad that you have found sources that can give you the kind of time saving recos that consistently work for you. That's awesome for you. But I need to listen for myself. That's just how I'm wired as a person, I can't take anyone's word for anything, ever, I simply have to see for myself. If you personally Mark, knowing me and knowing my tastes were to listen to 10 albums, and then you reported back that you were firmly convinced that #6 was the one I'd want, I still wouldn't be able to sleep until I'd listened to every single one of the other 9 just to make sure. I'd have no choice, I always have to see for myself and make sure. It would just eat away at me thinking you might've picked the wrong one and I'd possibly missed out on some amazing and life changing music. I suppose I just have a really bad case of FOMO is what is comes down to. That's what drives my marathon late night new music sampling sessions, FOMO. It's not easy being me.

I guess because I had completely missed the rise of black and death metal in the early 90's and was going through all of this stuff at the same time so many years later, I just never gave any weight to what others might've thought were supposedly the better bands or the classic albums. I'm definitely not a usual suspects guy. I just listened to everything for myself with an open mind and then whatever appealed to me I'd go back to, and anything that didn't grab me right away got passed over. Which isn't really any different than what I do now, it's just that I had close to 20 years of metal to go through all at once back then, which was a bit overwhelming. So I just wasn't going to waste any time at all on the stuff that wasn't blowing my doors off, because I was finding so much other stuff that really was. It might not be fair to judge 2000's albums against those old 90's albums on an even footing but that's the position I was in, discovering it all together at the same time like that. So the net result was I have a pretty low opinion now of a lot of these bands that are considered by many to be the consensus cornerstones of early 90's extreme metal. Not just to be contrary which is what I think many people seem to think, but just to be honest with myself about what I like and what I don't. I couldn't possibly care any less what some other dude's opinion of Morbid Angel or Deicide might be, those bands mean nothing to me, I give them no metal cred status points whatsoever because their music does absolutely nothing for me. Same with a lot of those other early 90's Florida death metal bands as well as just about all of those original early 90's Norwegian black metal bands - save for Darkthrone whom I do really like, just not necessarily the consensus albums I'm supposed to like. I'd put The Cult is Alive far ahead of Funeral Moon or Transylvanian Hunger for instance. I've just formed my own ideas about which bands and albums should be the exalted ones, and very few of them match up with the consensus revered early 90's originators. I've replaced most of those bands with my own picks which are often more obscure less visible bands. Nobodies in other words. But they're somebodies to me and that's all that matters. This is why over the years I've pushed back so hard on your tendency to let others' concensus picks save you some of the arduous and very time consuming digging. Because I know that if you were to take any 100 metal albums at random and have 100 metalheads evaluate and rank them all, I can predict with 100% certainty that my picks for the best and worst standouts aren't going to match up with the group's consensus opinion. At the Gates Slaughter of the Soul, an album you brought up that gets mentioned quite a bit did absolutely nothing for me, nor did any of their other albums, so AtG has no significance at all to me either positively or negatively. Same with early Carcass which so many seem to love, those albums don't mean anything at all to me. Don't hate 'em or anything, I just don't care, they're not on my radar. They're insignificant to me. My friends mostly all seem to love Voivod and Vektor and I can't stomach listening to even one song from either one of them. I could give you dozens of examples like this. I just go by what I enjoy listening to the most so I have my own favorites and to hell with what anyone else thinks. Now you know that I harbor much disdain and repulsion for all that frilly sparkly symphonic stuff, and that even includes Emperor whom all my metalhead friends seem to revere. Won't waste much time talking about any of that stuff because I'm not at all familiar with any of those kinds of bands or their albums so I really don't have much to say about them. Like power metal or Queensryche it's immediately apparent 5 seconds in that stuff's just not going to be for me, so I've just ignored it all for the most part, as if it didn't exist. Which is weird because my best and oldest and dearest friend in the entire world now tells me that Nightwish is his favorite metal band. And I have trouble reconciling that fact with the dude I remember going to all those many dozens if not hundreds of metal and punk shows with back in the day. We were like brothers for years, but then we got separated in '93 when he moved down to Nashville for over a decade. And from that point on musically speaking he went one way while I went the other. We're both in Jersey now and we still hang out, and we'll still always have a lot of the old 80's stuff we grew up with in common like Overkill and Riot and Sisters of Mercy... but we have an unspoken agreement that I won't make him listen to my ugly black/death goat filth and he won't ask me to listen to his symphonic pop metal.

Alright now I have to ask, how old is your dad? My dad was a Bob Dylan fanatic, but he was born in 1934 so I guess that's understandable. He liked 50's do-wop music too. In his later years (1990's early 2000's) he finally branched out and discovered some "newer" classic rock from the 70's, stuff like Boston, Fleetwood Mac, Kansas, Billy Joel and Springsteen, but being an intolerant metalhead I wasn't able to really share any of that with him. Wasn't about to congratulate my old man for finally discovering some 30 year old has-been milquetoast bands. I sometimes wonder if I would have ever been able to introduce him to some better music, but he died in 2007 so we'll never know. Shit I haven't ever heard any of the AC/DC albums that came after Flick of the Switch in '83. So looks like I wouldn't even be able to get along musically with your dad either, who I suspect is probably a bit younger than me, so it's not just a generation thing. I can't imagine wanting to listen to any AC/DC album 146743 times.

Bowel stretching. Because that was some load of shit they sharted out just to say it was ugly dissonant death metal. Unless it's a war metal band from the Ross Bay Cult school of the black arts and then I suppose goat fucking would probably be more appropriate.

Warning - Watching From a Distance, UK doom 2006. Vocals were a bit off-putting at first, but then I realized they fall into the so bad they're good category, and now I'm rather enjoying this.

Haha no dude you're fine, don't panic! I'm not trying to interrogate you or put you on the spot or anything, just extending a friendly hello from the group since I see you here every day now, and inquiring about what your deal is since you hadn't offered any information other than your location. I like meeting new people too, we're a very welcoming bunch over here, and I think I can speak for everyone when I say we're glad to have you. I understand at 27 you must feel like you're getting older now, rapidly approaching 30 which sounds very adult-like. I remember 27 was the age when I realized there was no going back I was going to be an adult soon whether I liked it or not. Just realized 27 was also the age when I got married for the first time in '88. But trust me aderfé, you're still quite young to someone 62 who was already 35 when you were born. I'm actually quite fascinated when I meet younger people like you who are into real metal. I've gotten it into my head that young folks under 35 or 40 aren't generally interested in real metal anymore these days. And as someone who has a ten year old son who has yet to really dive head first into music, I spend a fair amount of time wondering what kind of music he could be listening to in a few years when he does (hopefully) become interested in music. So meeting young dudes like you in their 20's who are metalheads gives me some hope that maybe metal could be something that he and I could bond over one day. My dad never cared for any of my music as a teen in the 70's, so we had to bond over sports. My one big question that I have for you though Yannis, is why do you always seem to post individual songs instead of full albums? Not that there's anything wrong with that, you do you, but most metalheads post the whole album because we tend to listen to albums in their entirety most of the time, not just random songs on shuffle. Except for Mark and his infamous playlists of course. Also maybe you could start labeling your posts with at least the band name and album/song title? That way when I get one that says "video unavailable" like the one you posted 3 hours ago, I'll still know what it was. Also I'm pretty old and I have a lot of trouble deciphering most of these crazy intricate band logos. ευχαριστώ And no, if you're wondering I don't speak Greek, but I was married to a Greek and then I worked for Greeks for 20 years so I might've picked up just a few words.

I don't get real excited about pizza, don't ever eat it more than once a month if that, I could easily go several months between pizzas. But my wife and her mum both liked pineapple on theirs which to me is just sacrilege. I don't want fruit fucking touching my pizza man. That's worse than fruity metalcore with their melodic sing-songy choruses. But we all know Kiwis are a bit weird to begin with. I mean just look at Jon-O Blade and Luxi. The boy likes pizza though of course so I just keep some little $2.50 Totinos frozen ones on hand that I can chuck into the air fryer for 10 minutes for him on a Chewsday arvo after school. Never had an Aussie pizza during the month I was down there, didn't even see any pizza shops that I recall. Just a bunch of Oportos and tons and tons of noodle shops and greasy fish & chips shops. Here on the east coast especially up here in NY and NJ with our large populations of Italian ancestry, we have a pizza shop on almost every block. In the city you'll often find two or more of them on the same block. Staten Island's the worst, they must have 1 pizza parlor for every 9.2 residents. As far as peppers go, no one really bothers to say 'bell' anymore except maybe in recipes sometimes it'll say bell peppers. We just call them by their color: red peppers, yellow peppers, green peppers, orange peppers. I won't buy green peppers, mostly just red and occasionally a yellow or an orange one. And then we have all different kinds of hot peppers: poblanos, anaheims, jalapeños, serranos, habaneros...but yeah I put peppers in almost everything I make and then have to pick them all out for the boy because he won't eat them. But I swear when I got married for the final time (never again!) in 2012 and she put "caps" on the shopping list I honestly had no fucking idea what she wanted me to get.

Kalimera Yannis, if you're going to be posting daily with us here and since you never properly introduced yourself I guess it's time someone asked who you are and what's your story? I see you're in Greece, and you look fairly young (compared to some of us old geezers) how'd you become a metalhead? And welcome to the Metalforum btw it's always good to get new people. Are you a Greek who's fluent in English, or maybe using a translator or maybe a Brit or an American living in Greece? I need to know these things, your English is very good.

I won't say most, but many Americans don't even understand the word prawns, (or capsicum) they're all shrimp to us over here. Don't remember how old I was when I discovered what a prawn was (I do remember it was written on an Asian restaurant's white board as the special and I asked someone I was with wtf are prawns? and was told they were like really huge shrimp) but I was definitely already well into adulthood. We don't usually see those real big 'king prawn' sized ones over here except maybe at certain Asian restaurants. We mostly just get the bite sized ones or the two bite ones in the supermarket, and if you go out to a chain restaurant and order a dish with shrimp, you'll generally get those little tiny ones. Don't know why they even need to sell the pre cooked ones as the raw shrimp cook up to opaque in just 3 minutes. Don't turn your back on them, they'll overcook and get tough. I buy kilo bags of shrimp mostly because the boy likes them and there aren't that many proteins he really likes. Shrimp is one of those strange products where the big bag can often cost less than the smaller bag. Like ice cream, the little single serving pints are $7 and the bigger 3 pint box (that years ago would've been 4 pints) is only like $4. I try to keep ice cream out of my life because I know I'm a recovering addict, but once the kid discovered the joys of ice cream he started demanding that I keep some in the freezer for him. Fortunately he likes that mint chip flavor that I can't stand. Putting mint in ice cream is just as bad as those idiots who put pineapple on their pizza.

My extreme metal awakening/epiphany was similar to yours in some ways, (I too once bought records by Lamb of god and The Haunted that I then traded back into the store upon my next visit) but my journey's a bit different than yours in more ways than it's the same. I had never grown tired of or stopped listening to metal, I was always pretty much one of those all metal all the time kinda guys. Or let's say metal and other reasonably heavy metal adjacent stuff like hardcore, punk and hard rock. I had just gotten caught flat-footed when real metal disappeared underground seemingly overnight right around 1990 and no one had thought to tell me. I'd had a kid in June of 1990 so our going out to shows 4 nights a week lifestyle came to an abrupt end because we had to be home to feed the baby every two hours. Problem was that talking to dudes at shows had always been the best way to find out about bands in the pre-internet era, along with trips to the specialty metal record store an hour away which also became few and far between after 1990. So I basically got stuck still listening to thrash and all of my 80's stuff all throughout the 90's. For my infrequent new music fixes I had resorted to finding crap off the radio or MTV in the 90's, which I guess is why my purchases (aside from those bands I already knew and had multiple albums from, like Overkill) became much more mainstream oriented in the 90's. Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Godsmack, Social Distortion, White Zombie, STP, Puddle of Mudd and Monster Magnet were all bands I discovered and listened to quite a bit of in the 90's. Not exactly trve kvlt stuff, definitely not brutal or satanic, and not even as heavy as a lot of the shit I'd previously been listening to in the 80's and considered pillars of my collection. I guess I was just too busy working and being a single dad in the 90's to have much time leftover to devote to being a dedicated metalhead who stayed up to date on all the latest bands. It's always really cool to see the other guys' list of albums that hold great significance to them. So thanks for sharing. Looking down your list I see we have very little in common, or less than I might've thought we would anyway. Almost none of those 2000 - 2005 records mean anything at all to me, and tbh quite a few of those bands I really actively can't stand. I do dig some Electric Wizard though, and of course as I've said Dark Tranquility were huge for me in the 00's, but they're not in the rotation at all anymore. Dead Heart in a Dead World was once in heavy rotation, dig YOB, dig Moonsorrow, I liked The Work Which Transforms God, I went through a brief Naglfar phase (just the early stuff, nothing past Sheol), and I believe I did even buy an Orange Goblin record once. But that's about it, just 8 out of the 60 you listed, the rest of those bands/albums aren't anything I've ever been interested in. Funny how that works, people like us will have completely different impressions and recollections of a musical period in time, in this case the early 2000's, based on what they were personally listening to at that time. My extreme metal awakening came a bit later than yours did, and I was a bit older. It was late 2004 so I was 43 already by the time I got into extreme metal. I've told the story on here before, it hit me at some point that a good deal of my favorite albums were a decade or more old, so I just got a bug up my ass one weekend to go to the record store and see if I could get up to speed on wtf was happening in the world of 21st century metal. Came home with an armful of the rankest garbage albums that day, all based on magazine reviews, none of which stuck with me at all. Except for DT, which for some reason I kept going back to and that led me to find similar stuff like Hypocrisy, Kalmah, Insomnium, Amon Amarth and Opeth. But then once I found Necrophobic a couple of years later that was it, I became much more interested in the harder more extreme forms of death metal. Necrophobic were also the band that really got me interested in black metal around '08/'09, and by then I'd left most of that commercial melodeath crap behind me in the rear view mirror. But I guess that's how gateway bands work for me, once I get to where I've actually been trying to get to, those gateway bands are no longer needed for anything. Like when rocketships destined for deep space jettison the spent boosters they needed to get themselves up and clear of the Earth's atmosphere. So in the mid aughts I quickly went from like a heavy/thrash/grunge/punk mix to melodeath and from there to blackened death metal and then by the late 00's I'd joined a metal forum and had started the arduous but rewarding process of combing through 15 - 20 years of 'old school' 90's death and black metal bands I had slept on for all those years. I don't remember ever really going through a specific stoner phase, I had just came across random stoner bands and albums here and there over the years that I liked so I mentally filed them away in that Sabbath/Soundgarden/Kyuss area of my brain. Cool for a spin or two now and then, but that bluesy stoner rock stuff was never going to be my main focus, I was always focused on searching for something a bit heavier. Fu Manchu was not a band I ever connected with, even back when I was buying those kind of stoner rock records at one time in the early 00's. I was more of a Sasquatch guy. I'll still buy one or two "stoner" rock/doom albums a year when I find one that speaks to me, but not usually more than that. I've never had any use for post-rock or post-metal, just never found any of that stuff interesting or heavy enough to suit me. Much like funeral doom, another genre I tried to get into a bit but then eventually gave up on as just not for me.