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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2XImbF8ny8o So that's why Iron Maiden has such excellent musicianship, they're all super-tiny! It all makes sense now!

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Hate Forest - Purity

This isn't a debate. You're just offering rhetoric and personal observations to back up your armchair musings and trying to bat down anyone who seems to have a different view. Can't call it a celebration either, the only thing you seem to be celebrating is your own writing. It's hard to know where to start responding to this thread. It's essentially dishonest. It's not about "women in metal", it's about your opinions and the (limited) role you see for women in metal; and it's not about discussing "reasons" for your unsupported claim that women tend to do vocals rather than play instruments, because you seem to have it all figured out. You're just here to expound. I guess it's kind of clever to say you're interested in a "discussion" of some point, when you're actually taking it as a given and using it to support your other ideas, because it keeps the ball in your court and everyone else on their back foot. It lets you steer things towards the points you want to make. But it doesn't make for a good thread. I'm not convinced that women in rock and metal do, in fact, statistically tend to be vocalists rather than play instruments; maybe you just think that because you notice them more? Even if that were the case, it's a pretty big jump to claim that it must be due to physical or mental differences between the genders. Of course you don't come right out and say that you think they can't hack it; you say that they "just aren't interested" in those instruments, offer a counterpoint of actual data that doesn't support what you're saying, and then brush it aside with some handwaving about "an Ed Sheeran effect". Now, the "Ed Sheeran effect" is actually about women finding red-haired men more attractive because of Ed Sheeran's popularity, but you're extending it to say it's also the reason why women are buying more guitars lately. The subtext there is that it's all down to sex appeal and marketing, not some organic uptick in female interest in playing music. In other words, women aren't really interested in music, per se, but they might manage to learn how to bang out some tunes thanks to the influence of a popular male cultural figure. Then we get to the "small hands" bit. This is a howler. If this was true, you'd think women (and men!) with small hands wouldn't take up the bass guitar, or the cello, or the double bass... and yet they do! (On this note, I would invite you to think back about ten or fifteen years to the stereotype that "chicks always play the bass".) You'd think people with larger hands wouldn't play violin, or mandolin, or anything else comparatively tiny and finicky... and yet they do. Guitar's not that big of an instrument. Playing metal is not some massive, Herculean undertaking. And you can't use the fact that women tend to have smaller hands than men, statistically, on average, as evidence for some sharp distinction between the genders. Hand size is a spectrum. There's no bright-line discontinuity. This is a category error on your part. You lecturing ChainsawAkimbo about "real science" being "based on observation" is extra funny when you haven't offered one bit of real-world data to support what you're saying, aside from a few anecdotes about a handful of musicians within your own sphere of knowledge. Deliberately misunderstanding his point about "cavemen" doesn't do you any favors. And the repeated worries about staying "on topic" are pretty funny too, considering that you said you wanted to "celebrate women in metal" but have yet to mention anything actually positive about any particular female musician, or women's contributions to music in general. Since we're relying on personal anecdotes here, I'd like to share that I personally know a bunch of ripping female musicians - some of whom love and play metal - and I can assure you that in my 27 years of playing music I've seen no evidence of any difference in talent or ability on any instrument that I could attribute to gender. There is no denying that women are underrepresented in rock and metal, but you're way out over your skis. Now I'm gonna go listen to Anachronism, and maybe some Nachtlieder.